Core Science GCSE to A/S Chemistry - ?

MallyGirl

My DD (yr 11) is aiming for vet med so I have a brain full of this info. By my calculations it is extremely unlikely that a vet would pay back the fees before the 30 year cut off kicks in and wipes the debt. Maybe, if they started their own practice quite young and it grew in size quickly, but otherwise no. Not like medicine - vets just don't earn as much as you might think.
Payback is 9% above a salary threshold (soon to rise to £29k, with vet starting salary around £25k) so if you aren't earning enough you don't pay.
Grades for vetmed are A*AA down to possibly AAB. 5 yr course except Cambridge which is 6 yrs. 8 good GCSEs min. Chemistry A level compulsory and must be an A or A*. I can't comment on the diploma way as that isn't a path we are considering.
We don't have a plan B really - it would be take a gap year, boost grades if needed and get masses more work experience before trying again.
Competition is so fierce that DD might have her preferences but knows that she will take any course that will have her. Vetmed at Aber (in partnership with RVC) is still in the planning stage but might be there by the time your son is looking.

Tabbytabitha

jrtfan wrote: »

Thanks! Very independently thinking. Primary school was an interesting experience.

Thanks too for replying with regard to the student loans. I think I understand what you mean - so, were he to be made redundant in the future for example, or if he had to change to a job that paid under the threshold, then the repayments would stop for the time being? (Or maybe stop altogether, in certain circumstances?)

That's it exactly.
Redundancy, illness, caring responsibility etc could mean that repayments stop. If you've put spare money into savings you have the use of them, if you're repaid more than you need ton student loans hen the money's gone.
In the case of death, permanent disability or at the end of 30 years, any outstanding monies are wiped.

need_an_answer

jrtfan wrote: »

Thanks! Very independently thinking. Primary school was an interesting experience.

Thanks too for replying with regard to the student loans. I think I understand what you mean - so, were he to be made redundant in the future for example, or if he had to change to a job that paid under the threshold, then the repayments would stop for the time being? (Or maybe stop altogether, in certain circumstances?)

the loan is only repaid if you earn the required threshold,and I believe there is a point some 30 years down the line where it is written off.

I've read things that seem, to suggest that perhaps the focus shouldn't be on making overpayments but to just let it run.
Some tend to view it as an extra taxation and I assume after a while you just get used to it being deducted monthly in the same way as Tax or NI contributions.

Again what I would say is the student needs to be totally committed to the studying.There are those who drop out at the end of second year and whilst they wont complete their respective studies are likely to take the debt of student loan with them onward in whatever they do
I have no clear knowledge of drop out rates but 3 in the house my offspring shares with are very close to not returning for their 3rd years next year.
2 because they just have not put the work in this year to get a decent enough grade that they consider will take them on(an under estimation of the demands of their study) and the third is leaving because they feel they can now set up themselves in their chosen field.

sn1987a

jrtfan wrote: »

That's interesting, thank you. I knew the courses had become linear these days rather than modular, but I didn't know the science courses themselves had changed to this extent. So from what you're saying, the core science I thought he was taking will now, in fact, be combined science instead?

Maybe you are thinking of double science that has changed into the linear combined science. Double science was 2 gcses, and had two exams, core science exam (3 papers, 1 for biology, 1 chemistry and 1 physics) and additional science exam (3 papers, 1 for biology, 1 chemistry and 1 physics).
Triple science had the same exams as double science and an extra one, again 3 papers 1 for each discipline.

Students studying separate science will study more topics than the combined science students. Some topics will be in more depth than the combined science students. But doing separate science doesn't guarantee success in A level studies. As mentioned already, A level studies are on a different level. Sometimes it's better to do the combined science route so the student can get good grades. Even grammar schools put students in combined science so they can get better grades than the would have got if they had studied separate sciences.

jrtfan wrote: »

His latest report (issued this month) predicts he'll be a (new) grade 7 or 8 at the end of year 11, working at his current level. The Unis (we've checked each of the Vet schools in the UK) require AAA/AAB (one will accept ABB iirc) in Chemistry, Biology and a third subject. (Some will also accept D*D*D* in an L3 Extended Diploma, plus A/S Chemistry at grade A).

GCSE grades have nothing to do with A level grades. A* students can end up with Es in A level sciences. I personally wouldn't predict at the beginning of Y10 such a high grade for the end of Y11, no matter how good a student is. We don't even have the first science results with the new specification. If your son is indeed so good to have such a high predicted grade, why he was not chosen to to separate sciences? You could ask the school for your information. What grade is he working at now?

My suggestion is that your son should check online what are the updated university entry requirements. Seeing that he can make it with combined science will put your mind at ease. Next step, he can check online at 6th form brochures (some schools publish the requirements to study each subject online) or call to find out what grades he needs to study Chemistry or any other subject required for vet uni. Then he can focus on his gcses and he will have a target.

Good luck!

jrtfan

MallyGirl wrote: »

My DD (yr 11) is aiming for vet med so I have a brain full of this info. By my calculations it is extremely unlikely that a vet would pay back the fees before the 30 year cut off kicks in and wipes the debt. Maybe, if they started their own practice quite young and it grew in size quickly, but otherwise no. Not like medicine - vets just don't earn as much as you might think.
Payback is 9% above a salary threshold (soon to rise to £29k, with vet starting salary around £25k) so if you aren't earning enough you don't pay.
Grades for vetmed are A*AA down to possibly AAB. 5 yr course except Cambridge which is 6 yrs. 8 good GCSEs min. Chemistry A level compulsory and must be an A or A*. I can't comment on the diploma way as that isn't a path we are considering.
We don't have a plan B really - it would be take a gap year, boost grades if needed and get masses more work experience before trying again.
Competition is so fierce that DD might have her preferences but knows that she will take any course that will have her. Vetmed at Aber (in partnership with RVC) is still in the planning stage but might be there by the time your son is looking.

There's an awful lot to research, isn't there?! I hope your daughter does well with her GCSEs, does her school know what she wants to do and is supporting her to get there?

How has she been getting on with finding work experience placements/voluntary work, if you don't mind me asking? We've hit hurdles when it comes to getting a placement within a working surgery, because none of the Vets in our area will take on under-16s (insurance won't cover them). Luckily, my son is getting some experience in large animals from helping out on farms, small animals from working at the college, and with horses as well from having had riding lessons for a year. It's difficult, though.

Taking a gap year and boosting grades if necessary sounds like a good idea. My son hasn't thought of this option yet! But I'm quite glad in a way that he's considering alternative courses at this stage, because I don't think he's properly realised yet that he'll need to get his head down and study with all his might if he wants to stand a chance of getting in to Vet school. As you say, the competition is fierce.

Your daughter does sound very determined from your description, and I wish her every success in securing a place at uni eventually.

MallyGirl

her school, a grammar, know what she wants to do but aren't going out of their way to support her so she is likely to move to an Indie for 6th form (which will). She is doing 3 separate sciences at GCSE but they all do as it is compulsory. She will do Biology, Chemistry and Maths at A level.
Work experience is a nightmare but the unis have brought down their expectations - Liverpool used to want 10 weeks work experience by the time of UCAS application! She has done a week each with 2 different small animal vets plus a day in a small animal hospital, a day with large animal vet, a day milking, 2 days lambing last Easter and she is doing another 5 days lambing next week. Now she is 16 she can volunteer at the local rescue centre once her GCSEs are over. It is hard work so they really have to want it.

Tabbytabitha

jrtfan wrote: »

There's an awful lot to research, isn't there?! I hope your daughter does well with her GCSEs, does her school know what she wants to do and is supporting her to get there?

How has she been getting on with finding work experience placements/voluntary work, if you don't mind me asking? We've hit hurdles when it comes to getting a placement within a working surgery, because none of the Vets in our area will take on under-16s (insurance won't cover them). Luckily, my son is getting some experience in large animals from helping out on farms, small animals from working at the college, and with horses as well from having had riding lessons for a year. It's difficult, though.

Taking a gap year and boosting grades if necessary sounds like a good idea. My son hasn't thought of this option yet! But I'm quite glad in a way that he's considering alternative courses at this stage, because I don't think he's properly realised yet that he'll need to get his head down and study with all his might if he wants to stand a chance of getting in to Vet school. As you say, the competition is fierce.

Your daughter does sound very determined from your description, and I wish her every success in securing a place at uni eventually.

I wouldn't rely on this without checking it out first. Many universities expect even higher grades if taken as resits - that's if they'll accept resits at all.

jrtfan

sn1987a wrote: »

Maybe you are thinking of double science that has changed into the linear combined science. Double science was 2 gcses, and had two exams, core science exam (3 papers, 1 for biology, 1 chemistry and 1 physics) and additional science exam (3 papers, 1 for biology, 1 chemistry and 1 physics).
Triple science had the same exams as double science and an extra one, again 3 papers 1 for each discipline.

Students studying separate science will study more topics than the combined science students. Some topics will be in more depth than the combined science students. But doing separate science doesn't guarantee success in A level studies. As mentioned already, A level studies are on a different level. Sometimes it's better to do the combined science route so the student can get good grades. Even grammar schools put students in combined science so they can get better grades than the would have got if they had studied separate sciences.

The part I've emboldened is exactly what he and his peers have been doing during their extra lessons. So, thank you - at least now I know that he's been studying separate science!

GCSE grades have nothing to do with A level grades. A* students can end up with Es in A level sciences. I personally wouldn't predict at the beginning of Y10 such a high grade for the end of Y11, no matter how good a student is. We don't even have the first science results with the new specification. If your son is indeed so good to have such a high predicted grade, why he was not chosen to to separate sciences? You could ask the school for your information. What grade is he working at now?

If I can find an image hosting site that actually works, I'll post a photograph I took of the Science section on his current school report later. But to try and answer your points meanwhile, I take on board what you say about not having the first 'new specification' science results back yet; and with this in mind, I don't know how or why the teacher estimated his Yr11 target grades. (I apologise because I made a mistake with these previously, they're 7-7 and not 7-8.) Possibly it's based on how he's been doing since September; the report was issued this month, rather than the end of the last academic year. He's currently working at 5-5.

The commentary includes "in order to reach grade 7 and higher, XXXX will have to..." and talks about not rushing his answers because he makes simple errors from time to time, which will lose him marks in his exams. It says he's particularly able in Chemistry and Physics, and that he should challenge himself by spending more time on grade 7-9 questions.

It's all sounding quite positive to me, so it was a surprise to hear from him that it wasn't certain at the moment if anyone in his group would go forward for the separate sciences GCSE! All will become clear in time, no doubt

My suggestion is that your son should check online what are the updated university entry requirements. Seeing that he can make it with combined science will put your mind at ease. Next step, he can check online at 6th form brochures (some schools publish the requirements to study each subject online) or call to find out what grades he needs to study Chemistry or any other subject required for vet uni. Then he can focus on his gcses and he will have a target.

Good luck!

All very sound advice, I'll get him onto it. Thank you for helping, it's much appreciated

jrtfan

need_an_answer wrote: »

I totally agree with you.

Having had no experience of universities,neither myself or my OH either felt the need to go to one or wanted that path,we did rely quite heavily on the guidance of our childs teaching staff to advise/mentor them when it came to decisions about university statement choices.
High grades were required and subsequently achieved but sadly the places offered were not extended to entrance once the A level results were gained.
With hindsight the first and second choices were very similar in both terms of grades required and course offered,reasonably close universities who now seem to work off the back of eachother.

Having to go through clearing with the grades mine had was certainly an eye opener and whilst it didn't take very long to achieve a very good back up plan I certainly feel there could have been a lot of tension and self doubt avoided if perhaps the steer hadn't been all focused on the Russell group.

I guess it comes down to needing to do lots of research beforehand but always having a back up plan and being open to change if that's what your results dictate

In our case its worked extremely well and the university our child ended up in was and is the perfect match.

That's what matters, at the end of the day, I think. If they feel happy and settled then they're more likely to stay on and complete their degree. But if they feel out of place for any reason, then they might look for a reason to leave - which could be along the lines of falling behind in their work, or struggling with a particular module for example.

My OH wasn't especially happy at Oxford. Not the university's fault; he said he just felt a bit like a square peg in a round hole there, even though his abilities were on a par with everybody else's on his course. Echoing your own youngster's experience, he was steered in that direction by his school and careers advisors. Also, his family was immensely proud of him, he was the first to go to uni and this put pressure on him because he didn't want to let them down. He said it was the course itself which interested him, not the actual university; the same course was offered elsewhere too. I suppose he stuck with it because he'd made that commitment and everything turned out fine for him in the end. It's a shame really, though, because his university experience might have been quite different for him, had he chosen a different uni instead.

jrtfan

Tabbytabitha wrote: »

That's it exactly.
Redundancy, illness, caring responsibility etc could mean that repayments stop. If you've put spare money into savings you have the use of them, if you're repaid more than you need ton student loans hen the money's gone.
In the case of death, permanent disability or at the end of 30 years, any outstanding monies are wiped.

need_an_answer wrote: »

the loan is only repaid if you earn the required threshold,and I believe there is a point some 30 years down the line where it is written off.

I've read things that seem, to suggest that perhaps the focus shouldn't be on making overpayments but to just let it run.
Some tend to view it as an extra taxation and I assume after a while you just get used to it being deducted monthly in the same way as Tax or NI contributions.

Again what I would say is the student needs to be totally committed to the studying.There are those who drop out at the end of second year and whilst they wont complete their respective studies are likely to take the debt of student loan with them onward in whatever they do
I have no clear knowledge of drop out rates but 3 in the house my offspring shares with are very close to not returning for their 3rd years next year.
2 because they just have not put the work in this year to get a decent enough grade that they consider will take them on(an under estimation of the demands of their study) and the third is leaving because they feel they can now set up themselves in their chosen field.

My first thought would have been to see the loan in the same way as a mortgage, make over-payments in order to clear the debt as quickly as possible. But I'm coming around to your ways of thinking now because it doesn't seem quite so horrendous if I look at it as another tax; a mortgage doesn't have the flexibility to stop payments if your circumstances change (other than taking a 'holiday', that is); and it certainly wouldn't be written off after a set number of years!

I saw more than one post on a student website when I was doing my degree, from people who had decided to drop out of their degree course and then either had a percentage of their student loan to pay back still; or decided they'd like to resume their studies some time later, but found themselves having problems with obtaining further loans to fund them. It's definitely something to think seriously about before embarking upon any studies now.