Core Science GCSE to A/S Chemistry - ?

jrtfan

sn1987a wrote: »

I am a science teacher. Applied/triple/core science are terms of the old system. Schools now offer separate science (equivalent to triple science=3 gcses) and combined science (2 GCSEs).
You should contact directly the 6th forms to see what they require for a student to do A level chemistry. 99% he can do it as long as he has the right grades(for the school), whether he did separate or combined sciences.

That's interesting, thank you. I knew the courses had become linear these days rather than modular, but I didn't know the science courses themselves had changed to this extent. So from what you're saying, the core science I thought he was taking will now, in fact, be combined science instead?

If his school doesn't want him to do separate science, you should discuss with his science teacher the reason. Maybe he is not strong/commited enough for separate sciences. The A level chemistry is very demanding. The university course asks for chemistry, but what grade? It's all about the grades rather than studying a course.

His latest report (issued this month) predicts he'll be a (new) grade 7 or 8 at the end of year 11, working at his current level. The Unis (we've checked each of the Vet schools in the UK) require AAA/AAB (one will accept ABB iirc) in Chemistry, Biology and a third subject. (Some will also accept D*D*D* in an L3 Extended Diploma, plus A/S Chemistry at grade A).

The current Science teacher is in the process of bringing the whole Science set up to speed at the moment. I suspect this might be where the doubt has crept in. But my son definitely could spend more time on independent study as well.

A lot of schools no longer have the AS exams as they no longer count for university places. You may have to pay for the exam by yourself anyway. Are you sure his preferred university still asks for AS chemistry? If he sits the exam by himself, who will prepare him?

I don't know for sure if the Unis are still asking for the A/S level, but it's worth checking again - thanks. If the GCSE and A-level exams/courses have been undergoing change, then the Unis are probably in the process of updating their websites accordingly, I would imagine.

The last time we checked, all of them were asking for 5 GCSEs at grade A to include Science and Double/Triple Science (or Biology and Chemistry, if taken as separate GCSEs) plus either Physics or Maths. Then a minimum of grade B in Maths (iyswim) and English. We've been going by what the universities' entrance requirements are rather than what he'd need to get into 6th form college, because ultimately it's this particular degree course he has to aim for, if he's determined that he wants to do it.

Regarding who would prepare him for the exam, I think we would be obliged to fund some private tuition for him. We can then support him to a certain extent (both of us have O-level Chemistry, albeit from a very long time ago!) and he would need to undertake some independent learning as well - he has access to a few online learning sites through his school.

jrtfan

Cash-Cows wrote: »

I would ask your son to do the calling. He's old enough to sort out his own courses.

Yes - good point. Old habits die hard

He has an inset day coming up, this would be an ideal time for him to do some phoning around.

jrtfan

He's booked to attend an open day at the Royal Veterinary College very soon (just because it's the closest of the Vet schools to us), and he'll be attending one of the talks on the BVetMed course whilst there. I'm going along as his 'guest' and his chauffeur (but not to the talk, he'll be on his own there). This experience will give him plenty of food for thought, I'm sure, and hopefully some better information at the same time.

need_an_answer

Is there a back up plan if the grades are not what is required or indeed the grades were achieved but the place not offered.

I am parent to an offspring who got the A star grades at GCSE, got the grades at A level but still wasn't offered a place at chosen first or second Uni simply because of the competition on the chosen course.

I would strongly suggest that you encourage your son to have a back up plan. There is a huge shift up when the subjects go from GCSE to A level and again a massive shift in them when you get to degree. If you are looking at extra tuition at this stage of GCSE then it could prove an uphill battle going forward when he progresses on.

Mine is now studying Chemistry at Uni in 2nd year and doing well however its worth being very mindful that even getting the grades required doesn't always guarantee you a place.to get to that it was 2 science and maths needed at high grade A level.

jrtfan

need_an_answer wrote: »

Is there a back up plan if the grades are not what is required or indeed the grades were achieved but the place not offered.

I am parent to an offspring who got the A star grades at GCSE, got the grades at A level but still wasn't offered a place at chosen first or second Uni simply because of the competition on the chosen course.

I would strongly suggest that you encourage your son to have a back up plan. There is a huge shift up when the subjects go from GCSE to A level and again a massive shift in them when you get to degree. If you are looking at extra tuition at this stage of GCSE then it could prove an uphill battle going forward when he progresses on.

Mine is now studying Chemistry at Uni in 2nd year and doing well however its worth being very mindful that even getting the grades required doesn't always guarantee you a place.to get to that it was 2 science and maths needed at high grade A level.

That's excellent news! It always cheers me up to hear about somebody reaching their goal and it sounds like your young adult has worked very hard to get there. You must feel very proud of them

Yes, my son has thought about alternatives, in case he can't get onto the Veterinary course. He's also looked into degrees in Bioveterinary Science, Animal Science and - interestingly - Veterinary Nursing. I'm just a little bit cautious about him taking the Nursing path though, in case he's seeing it as settling for second best. I believe, personally, that Vet Nursing is a valuable career in its own right and I'd like to think that he would enter into it for its own sake instead, because it was really what he wanted to do. But, it's his choice at the end of the day and not mine.

(He's also considered taking a degree in English, but he doesn't know what he would like to use this for after graduation. Possibly he's thinking that if he can't get onto a Science degree, then he'll do English instead because it's something he knows he is good at.)

It's interesting that you mention there being a huge shift up when subjects move from GCSE to A-level to degree. This is what has been worrying me with regard to my original post. At the moment, just 10 or 12 pupils in his year were offered the chance to study for what I was still thinking of as Triple Science, and they do this as an extra lesson outside of the normal school day. As I understand it, during this lesson they cover additional topics/topics in more depth, which I picture as being a bridge between the Science everyone is studying at school, and the beginning of the A/S or A-level courses. I might be wrong. My thinking has been that if he doesn't continue with this 'bridge' up to GCSE, then might he be lacking in certain knowledge when he stepped up to the next level - I don't know.

Just to clarify, we're not looking at extra tuition for the GCSE at the moment (it's more the A/S level we're thinking about). His whole group coasted to an extent with a previous teacher, followed by 2 or 3 supply teachers until the current teacher took over. They're pushing the group hard now to bring them up to speed and I feel happy that my son can catch up to where he should be, if he's prepared to put in some extra work himself (he's on target for a 7/8 as it is, so if he pushed himself a bit harder then I think it's a realistic aim for him). What I don't know, is what will happen if too few of the 10 or 12 pupils score well in their mock exams later this year. It's possible that the school could decide they don't have enough pupils to continue with these extra lessons, and in this case then yes, I think we would be prepared to look at getting him a tutor to take him through to his GCSE in separate science.

Dropping the separate science at school would also reduce the number of GCSEs he's taking down to 8.

need_an_answer

I think my advice would also be to choose your university well.
Perhaps something we could have done better in terms of allowing for top unis who cherry pick their students.
There is a great pressure sometimes to just consider Russell group but actually there are some very wonderful non Russell uni's too,do not be swayed by teaching staff who may push you to only consider the top 25!

I am aware that many universities also offer foundation courses for a year which help to bridge the gap between school/college and uni,this may be something to look into if you and your son feel that he might need a little wriggle room with grades.

In our experience a proportion of the first year course at uni is also a catch up to bring everyone in line with different learning across different exam boards at A level.
Its not uncommon for example to take an additional term of lectures in mechanics if you chose the stats option on A level maths and visa versa.

Take time after the GCSE's to really look into all the options even during the A levels its not uncommon to still be choosing the next path.

I wish you son luck with his studies and onward choices.

onomatopoeia99

need_an_answer wrote: »

I think my advice would also be to choose your university well.

That's a choice the child must make, not the parent. 30 years ago when I was looking at universities and filling out the UCCA form my parents let me get on with it and didn't interfere, even when I decided not at apply to Cambridge they accepted my choice. I would hope the same would be true today.

jrtfan

need_an_answer wrote: »

I think my advice would also be to choose your university well.
Perhaps something we could have done better in terms of allowing for top unis who cherry pick their students.
There is a great pressure sometimes to just consider Russell group but actually there are some very wonderful non Russell uni's too,do not be swayed by teaching staff who may push you to only consider the top 25!

I am aware that many universities also offer foundation courses for a year which help to bridge the gap between school/college and uni,this may be something to look into if you and your son feel that he might need a little wriggle room with grades.

In our experience a proportion of the first year course at uni is also a catch up to bring everyone in line with different learning across different exam boards at A level.
Its not uncommon for example to take an additional term of lectures in mechanics if you chose the stats option on A level maths and visa versa.

Take time after the GCSE's to really look into all the options even during the A levels its not uncommon to still be choosing the next path.

I wish you son luck with his studies and onward choices.

Thank you, and that's great advice - we'll certainly take it on board

He'll probably finish his GCSEs now and decide that he wants to be a train driver, or an author, or something...

I wish yours luck and success in their Chemistry degree studies.

peachyprice

jrtfan wrote: »

It's interesting that you mention there being a huge shift up when subjects move from GCSE to A-level to degree. This is what has been worrying me with regard to my original post. At the moment, just 10 or 12 pupils in his year were offered the chance to study for what I was still thinking of as Triple Science, and they do this as an extra lesson outside of the normal school day. As I understand it, during this lesson they cover additional topics/topics in more depth, which I picture as being a bridge between the Science everyone is studying at school, and the beginning of the A/S or A-level courses. I might be wrong. My thinking has been that if he doesn't continue with this 'bridge' up to GCSE, then might he be lacking in certain knowledge when he stepped up to the next level - I don't know.

Just to clarify, we're not looking at extra tuition for the GCSE at the moment (it's more the A/S level we're thinking about). His whole group fell behind with a different teacher, who has since left, and then they had 2 or 3 supply teachers in the interim until the current teacher took over. They're pushing the group hard now to bring them up to speed and I feel happy that my son can catch up to where he should be, if he's prepared to put in some extra work himself (he's on target for a 7/8 as it is, so if he pushed himself a bit harder then I think it's a realistic aim for him). What I don't know, is what will happen if too few of the 10 or 12 pupils score well in their mock exams later this year. It's possible that the school could decide they don't have enough pupils to continue with these extra lessons, and in this case then yes, I think we would be prepared to look at getting him a tutor to take him through to his GCSE in separate science.

Dropping the separate science at school would also reduce the number of GCSEs he's taking down to 8.

This would trouble me TBH, that the school expect so few pupils out of a whole year group to be able to study triple science, this is a very low expectation of the science department overall.

This really isn't a bridge between core science and A level, a better comparison would be the difference between foundation and higher tier maths or English. A Levels are a different ball game altogether with a large emphasis on independent learning that just isn't a requirement for good grade GCSEs.

jrtfan

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

That's a choice the child must make, not the parent. 30 years ago when I was looking at universities and filling out the UCCA form my parents let me get on with it and didn't interfere, even when I decided not at apply to Cambridge they accepted my choice. I would hope the same would be true today.

In my son's case, there are only 8 universities in the UK offering the veterinary medicine course (possibly 9 now, I've heard rumours that Aberystwyth may be doing it as well).

But if he can't get onto that particular course, then there are lots of places where he could study his chosen alternatives.

My one piece of advice to him so far has been to try and get into a uni that's reachable from home, if he can. With Vet Med, he's looking at a 5-year degree plus the maintenance loan as well. With tuition fees likely to rise by the time he starts in 2021, he could stand to rack up one heck of a debt if he moved away from home to study this.

Otherwise, I'll leave it to him to choose where he'd like to go (and advise him not to be pressured into making his choice by anyone else!).

My OH went to Oxford and I studied with the OU. It's whatever suits best, really