Zero hours contract

surfer9

Hi guys....

Just after some opinions/thoughts from anyone who is knowledgeable about zero hours contracts......

1. Do you have to give a valid reason for not being able to come into work?

2. Are employers allowed to demand you work set days and set hours?

3. How much flexibility should the employee be given, ie. in terms of taking days off, leaving 'early', coming in 'late'.

Thanks...

Les79

surfer9 wrote:

Hi guys....

Just after some opinions/thoughts from anyone who is knowledgeable about zero hours contracts......

I am in a zero hours contract, have been for 4 years. I've never verbally stated to any of the management what hours I would do, neither have they said that they expect me to do any specific hours. From day 1 management has stated to me 'do the hours you want'. I settled into full time hours, working 9am - 5.30pm. Sometimes there would be days or a number of days where there would not be work available, but this was rare......

After a year I started a business, and cut down my hours at work.....reducing my hours to 5-6 hours per day......a brief conversation was had about my hours with management and I continued working those amount of hours....and it has been the same up to the beginning of this year......

From January I have had other commitments come up and had to contact work in the morning to tell them that I am unavailable........this has happend 6 times in a 2 month period.

I have informed work that going forward for the next few months that I'd only be able to do 4 day weeks, with 1 random day off.

The response I got seems like an over the top criticising of me, claiming that I 'take advantage of the flexibility side of the job'.....that I turn up 'late', when I have never arranged a set time to come into work at, and that my excuses for not coming in are not good enough.....

To break this down I will ask your opinions on specific things related to this matter......

1. Do I need a 'valid' excuse for not coming into work?

2. Should I be coming in at a time set by management each day? I generally come in at the same time, but odd days I may be earlier than usual. I don't feel like i am taking the !!!! when it comes to turning up on 'time', generally they know I turn up at a certain time, but they are trying to pick out the rare occasions I'll turn up an hour later than usual.

3. Management are trying to set out that I do a 'full days work' and 'set days'......so they want to keep me on a zero hours contract but want me to do set hours as if I was contracted.....is this the correct approach?

I am just trying to understand where 'flexibility' starts and ends when it comes to zero hours contracts......

thanks....

surfer9 wrote: »

From January I have had other commitments come up and had to contact work in the morning to tell them that I am unavailable........this has happend 6 times in a 2 month period.

You are contacting them in the morning to advise that you are unavailable for that day?! That's a real douchebag move right there. 6 times in 2 months no less, which is not probably not quite enough to start disciplinary action but enough to warrant a frosty reception.

I have informed work that going forward for the next few months that I'd only be able to do 4 day weeks, with 1 random day off.

That's potentially fair. I think if you go to them with an EXACT plan then you'd fare better though. No mention of "random" and specify the 4 days you'll work. Then STICK TO IT! No calling up in the morning to advise that your business is more important than their business.

The response I got seems like an over the top criticising of me, claiming that I 'take advantage of the flexibility side of the job'.....that I turn up 'late', when I have never arranged a set time to come into work at, and that my excuses for not coming in are not good enough.....

Well, if you are calling them up on the morning that you are due in then I fully support their view of you taking advantage of the flexibility and that the excuse is unacceptable. Plus, turning up "late" (aka whenever you want) is probably more of a perk to be honest; the majority of people in work have to turn up on time. So, whilst they are throwing it in your face a bit here, they sort of have a point...

1. Do I need a 'valid' excuse for not coming into work?

Yes.

Maybe if your business takes off and you hire employees you will be a bit peeved off when your employee calls up and effectively says that they aren't doing your work today because their other job is more important.

2. Should I be coming in at a time set by management each day? I generally come in at the same time, but odd days I may be earlier than usual. I don't feel like i am taking the !!!! when it comes to turning up on 'time', generally they know I turn up at a certain time, but they are trying to pick out the rare occasions I'll turn up an hour later than usual.

Yes.

If they allow you the liberty to come in late and not get penalised then count your blessings!

3. Management are trying to set out that I do a 'full days work' and 'set days'......so they want to keep me on a zero hours contract but want me to do set hours as if I was contracted.....is this the correct approach?

Yes.

If that is what they are offering you in the way of work then so be it.

I am just trying to understand where 'flexibility' starts and ends when it comes to zero hours contracts......

thanks....

Flexibility starts and ends here:

1. They offer you hours on their terms

2. You accept or decline those hours, with the possibility of NEGOTIATING the offer (which you have been doing)

3. They offer you more hours if you accept, they offer you 0 hours if you continually decline (and/or push too much)

getmore4less

Zero hours work mutually agreed .

They offer work

You get to choose what work offers you accept.

if they want more notice for when you will be working then you need to give that notice.

surfer9

just revised my post down as it was pretty long. cheers.

Les79

surfer9 wrote: »

just revised my post down as it was pretty long. cheers.

No worries. I've just revised my post too...

surfer9

Les79 wrote: »

No worries. I've just revised my post too...

Cheers for the help Les.....

I am a little confused by some things I have read about zero hours contracts and giving notice and generally talking about an actual physical contract....

I have no physical, tangible contract, I never signed anything.....

I noticed you mentioned about 'disciplinary action' and that made me think - can there even be disciplinary action when I am not under a written contract of any sort. More likely I'd just be asked to do what they say or leave?

Does me not actually signing anything change things in relation to your replies to my questions?

Thanks again....

Les79

surfer9 wrote: »

Cheers for the help Les.....

I am a little confused by some things I have read about zero hours contracts and giving notice and generally talking about an actual physical contract....

Have a read of this:

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4468

That should shed some light (good and/or bad) on things.

I don't have the knowledge to provide further guidance than that, but the article seems thorough and relevant.

But as a side note, giving notice on the morning is a douchey move. Whilst you may not be a full employee, you effectively are and should have a bit more respect for the company who offer you hours on a weekly basis (they don't have to). I think you would benefit from giving them an exact plan of what days you can and can't do so they aren't guessing every other week.

Ultimately, irrespective of what you say they can just simply stop offering you hours = out of work.

I noticed you mentioned about 'disciplinary action' and that made me think - can there even be disciplinary action when I am not under a written contract of any sort. More likely I'd just be asked to do what they say or leave?

Good question to be fair. I think it can because you've got to follow the same rules as other employees. Let's use an extremeish example; could you download !!!!!! on the work computer if you haven't signed a contract which says that you agree to abide by the IT policy? Mind you, they'd probably just "sack" a zero hour contract employee on the spot instead of going through a disciplinary.

surfer9

Les79 wrote: »

But as a side note, giving notice on the morning is a douchey move. Whilst you may not be a full employee, you effectively are and should have a bit more respect for the company who offer you hours on a weekly basis (they don't have to). I think you would benefit from giving them an exact plan of what days you can and can't do so they aren't guessing every other week.

yeah, my workplace is pretty casual.

System

i work zero hours contract on tje nurse bank. i book and cancel my shifts as i please although out of courtesy i try not to cancel without at least a days notice. I think it also says in my contract if i repeatedly cancel last minute or DNA (DO Not Attend) shifts then i will be removed from the bank

What youve described they are well within their rights to say we dont have any work for you any more as you arentable to meet their requirements.

I lobe the flexibility of the bank. it works great for me and my family; however you still have to appreciate that its a business and doesnt run day to day. rotas need planning in advance and you might just not be available for what they need.

getmore4less

It works both ways.

You are making it clear you are not dependant on them and they are a lower priority to other things on a more frequent basis.

There will come a point where they protect their position.

Perhaps you should look at upping the stakes to a proper professional contract for services

surfer9

Cool, thanks.