Delay in renovation work

teneighty

Doozergirl wrote: »

They were living in the house. If you don't know that your alarm isn't working within a day then you're not using it, surely?

I'll make a guess that the electrician was on site when it was disconnected ("tampered with").

I always include a clause in my contracts that all alarms must be maintained in full operational condition throughout the works unless they get written permission from the homeowner. Plus the site must be left fully secure at the end of each working day or if the site is left unattended. Security is always a major concern as you have countless "strangers" wandering around the building and the building work is usually visible from the street attracting unwelcome attention. If the OP agreed they could disconnect the alarm then more fool him.

Fingers crossed I have never had a burglary or a fire on a site in over 30 years.

Warwick_Hunt

Furts wrote: »

If I were your builder I would not be very co-operative to this. Think of electricity and using an electric mixer. This is not going to use more electricity whether the job takes 4 months or 9 months. It is only using electricity when it is use, and this use is related to how much mortar and plaster are required for your works - it is not time related. Even the kettle for making tea has the same logic.

Now we come onto the heating. Builders do not expect gas central heating running at 20+C whilst doing their work. Think of building any new home, be this Barratts or whoever. The heating gets fired up when the house is almost complete - all the workers up until then are used to working at whatever the outside temperature is.

Now the break in. Your duty as a client was to ensure you had insurance in place that covered all risks. Like you I have had long running works to my home. I contacted my insurance broker and sought, and paid for, appropriate cover with a policy for the building works.

Now the burglar alarm. If it was defective then why did you allow this to occur? Why did you allow this to persist? What alternatives, or plan B, had you arranged as a Client to cover this eventuality?

People will have different views over matters, but you have posted before complaining that the builder took on other works. I reflect on that, and reflect on your logic in this latest post and wonder over matters. Sometimes builders make mistakes, and sometimes they pick the wrong clients. Sometimes these clients try it on, or are unreasonable.

It might not, maybe the tea breaks are the reason for running over.:p

sam1970

Thank you guys for the replies. The burglar alarm was removed by the builders for decoration reasons and we were unable to install another one for few weeks as the alarm company suggested completing the major work first as any sensors or PIRs could be moved by the builders and the company will charge to put things right again. The burglary happened during those few weeks and I did not even notify the insurer as I knew I had no case. As for Gas and electricity, there are no family members in the house during day time. When we come back in the evening or on the days when I randomly turned up during the day, I found all the house lights were on and the heating system is on full power. Clearly they were helping themselves to our utilities...It is not my job to keep them warm while working.

They were also helping themselves to our coffee, tea and sugar and milk without asking permission.I would have accepted that if they have completed work on time as I am not a tight person but to take triple the time is a bit too much.
As for those suggesting that I should be happy and grateful for the work...it was not bloody free...it cost me over £150000

Furts

Davesnave wrote: »

Did you inform your insurers about the extra risk and pay a higher premium for the duration of the work? We did and it was bloody expensive!

If you didn't, then the presence or absence of a burglar alarm is somewhat irrelevant.

Also, how do you justify claiming for all the gas and electricity used, when much of that will have been to meet your needs as well?

If you withhold money without a solid case, then I'd say you are likely to face more months of stress while you defend the indefensible. It might be better to accept that you have been on a steep learning curve, put this behind you and enjoy the benefits your upgraded home should give.

I suspect as an add on, or policy change, this will always be the case because the lovely insurance folks rub their hands with glee in these situations. I took out a new policy for the building works and it was very reasonable for premium costs. I do not recall how much, but that in itself means it did not register as being excessive. There was no requirement for a burglar alarm, or any onerous clauses attached - it all seemed sensible and fair.

I am with the Doozergirl mindset, and we moved out for the major works. This meant an insecure, unlived in, big, dark home for a long period with loads of passing traffic and parking vehicles. Yet there were never any issues with loss, theft, or vandalism. Perhaps I was lucky, but to hear OP was living in their home yet £5000 of items vanished strikes me as very "unlucky". Or perhaps the risks of this unlucky situation were exacerbated by having the burglar alarm disconnected? It happens, but as client one would hope OP would have been monitoring such situations to minimise this risk.

sam1970

To be honest I took the burglary loss on the chin and put it down to learning and experience. For the guys suggesting that we should have moved out, that would have proven very costly considering the delay and I am glad we did not. Adding to that the hassle of changing all cars (4) and house insurance policies and then reverting them back to the main address..alot of hassle and cost

Furts

sam1970 wrote: »

Thank you guys for the replies. The burglar alarm was removed by the builders for decoration reasons and we were unable to install another one for few weeks as the alarm company suggested completing the major work first as any sensors or PIRs could be moved by the builders and the company will charge to put things right again. The burglary happened during those few weeks and I did not even notify the insurer as I knew I had no case. As for Gas and electricity, there are no family members in the house during day time. When we come back in the evening or on the days when I randomly turned up during the day, I found all the house lights were on and the heating system is on full power. Clearly they were helping themselves to our utilities...It is not my job to keep them warm while working.

They were also helping themselves to our coffee, tea and sugar and milk without asking permission.I would have accepted that if they have completed work on time as I am not a tight person but to take triple the time is a bit too much.
As for those suggesting that I should be happy and grateful for the work...it was not bloody free...it cost me over £150000

To an extent I am sympathetic to your situation. I moved out and this did mean a long rental period which added to my build costs. But one has to be proactive and fair to all the contractors doing the work. Had I adopted the attitude that changing an address on an insurance policy was too much hassle and cost then I would never have entertained any of the building work. This is simply because anybody with that mindset needs to ask themselves serious questions about their suitability in engaging contractors.

You depending on an alarm company is worrying - it is not rocket science to leave alarms working, albeit in a temporary/cobbled up way. So why was this not done?

Add to this your comments above that I have highlighted and all round it gives an impression that you had no interest in managing and controlling the work. If you send out messages suggesting "I have no interest in..." or "I could not care less about..." . or "I am too weak to control ..." then the work is likely to be unsatisfactory and take longer than you planned.

Perhaps your next building project will be controlled in a different manner, using the benefit of hindsight?

missprice

sam1970 wrote: »

To be honest I took the burglary loss on the chin and put it down to learning and experience. For the guys suggesting that we should have moved out, that would have proven very costly considering the delay and I am glad we did not. Adding to that the hassle of changing all cars (4) and house insurance policies and then reverting them back to the main address..alot of hassle and cost

There may well have been less of a delay had you in fact moved out. If you live in a building site, each days work has to be covered up like floorboards put back so you can walk around, switches made to work so you can have power, kitchen made safe.
Then the next day it all has to be uncovered ready to start work.p
In perspective, our most recent works involved a full rewire. All told 3 days. Helped by the lack of ceilings, plaster etc. If it had to have been made safe and usable I think over a week would be accurate.

Eta, you do the maths for all your work I bet it would have come in close to the estimate

Doozergirl

sam1970 wrote: »

To be honest I took the burglary loss on the chin and put it down to learning and experience. For the guys suggesting that we should have moved out, that would have proven very costly considering the delay and I am glad we did not. Adding to that the hassle of changing all cars (4) and house insurance policies and then reverting them back to the main address..alot of hassle and cost

The whole thing is starting to sound like you couldn't be bothered. From your attitude, I'm starting to understand why things over ran. It is unbelievable to me that someone would not move out for £150k of work, because it is illogical not to! I'm talking about the inconvenience to me of a bathroom refit! It is more than conceivable that delays and additional expense are incurred exactly because the homeowner remains on site. And you want no hassle? They must have trodden on eggshells for you.

It seems to me that if you had contacted insurers correctly that you would be in a better financial position than you are now. It took me all of 30 seconds to log on and change my car registration number recently. The reason then that you didn't contact your insurer was because it was obvious that you were undertaking major works, had very little to do with the alarm (I have no alarm and still have home insurance. Feel free to let yourself in and meet my dogs!). I'm not surprised you haven't charged the builder, it's ridiculous to suggest that you might.

teneighty

Doozer aren't you forgetting it was the contractor who gave the 3/4 month time frame? I assume they knew the customer was going to be in residence throughout.

Sounds like it was wishful thinking on the part of the contractor that they would be able to complete £150k worth of work with the family in residence and their other work commitments. Or it was a clever ploy to win the job and they always knew they couldn't complete in 4 months.

However this does not change the fact that the OP has no grounds to claim damages for delays in the absence of a building contract with a L&AD clause.

I find it rather perplexing that someone engages in a £150,000 building project with no contract, no knowledge or experience and no professional support. I'm inclined to think 9 months was pretty good under the circumstances.

System

teneighty wrote: »

I find it rather perplexing that someone engages in a £150,000 building project with no contract, no knowledge or experience and no professional support. I'm inclined to think 9 months was pretty good under the circumstances.

This is it, 150k worth of work and no one overseeing the works or a contract? I've had clients employing me to administer a contract for 30k because they wanted to make sure everything was built properly and there were no extras added ...
Never tendered any work to contractors who have refused to enter a contract for the works, would be the first and last conversation with them tbh! It's crazy