Parking Awareness Service (PAS) PCN

dalew007

Has anything come of this ?
The image is no longer on the post so i cant see what it looks like, i would like to compare to one i have received.
thanks

ahremaz

Hi

I have read through various threads and i'm fairly comfortable that I won't have to pay any money to anyone, but essentially I was being hunted by Secure-A-Space to pay several fines for a private space that belonged to me as leaseholder of the property/parking bay in question.

My question if you wouldn't mind helping me is that I have now received a BW Legal letter saying that if I don't pay them in full within 14 days they will commence legal proceedings in the County Court. The problem is the letter is dated 14-October-2019 but I didn't even receive it until 17th November, so clearly I have missed that deadline. Should I now (or when can I) expect county court letters and is it too late to hit BW back with my 'defence' (i,.e. I own the damn spot).

Thanks in advance,

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]It is never too late to clobber these scammers, h[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ave you read this?[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

What does you lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention permits? Does it mention paying a parking parasite silly money if you do nor display one. If it is silent on the matter them your lease/AST has primacy and, if the are daft enough to take this to court they may get a bloody nose, especially if they are trying to charge you on land that you own, read this

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the elction , it can cause the scammer extra costs and work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]l[/FONT][/FONT]

ahremaz

Thank you for this, I haven't checked my lease agreement but will do so immediately.

I expect their LBC was just another attempt to squeeze anything they could out of me, but I still haven't received any kind of communication from the courts or anything further from these idiots so I suspect they realise they dont have a leg to stand on.

Do you know how long it could take for the courts to actually send anything to me if they did indeed start a claim in October? Can't imagine it would take 2

Idiots indeed trying to use their terms and conditions that are designed to protect me, against me!!! Their parking poster says the driver is supposed to display a valid permit (I originally had a photocopy one, because the managing agent had lost the original many years before we purchased the property and it had not been a problem for at least 6 years) - anyway that really annoys me so much, if their board had said 'you have to wear a miniskirt and dance the tango to park here' I wouldn't do that either.

johjames

dalew007 said:

Has anything come of this ?
The image is no longer on the post so i cant see what it looks like, i would like to compare to one i have received.
thanks

Nothing has come of this so far. I continue to receive letters from debt collectors which I ignore. I didn't receive any letters from the Court and the debt collection agency letters state that non-payment 'may result in a county Court Judgement being entered against' me. This is assuming that they win a court case, should they decide to pursue it, which given that their claim is fundamentally flawed, is improbable.

johjames

I have now received a Letter of Claim from dcblegal stating that I am 'liable as the Keeper or Driver.' Following the advice in the Newbies sticky, I will not respond to this, unless I've misunderstood the advice there.
I had previously submitted a SAR to PAS however I don't recall, nor can I find any record that I received any information in response to this SAR, although I may have missed it. Is there any risk associated with me submitting another SAR to PAS now? I don't know who the landowner is and so I haven't been able to pursue that route.

Le_Kirk

Yes, they are allowed to charge you if they discover it is a another request.  Check the date you submitted yours, it is more than 30 days ago, then CHASE them for a response.

Coupon-mad

johjames said:

Well, the irony is in the name, given that PAS appear to be run by a recognised scammer!

I received a 'Parking Charge Notice" from PAS in relation to an alleged offence which occurred in October of last year. The letter states 'The driver of the above vehicle is liable for a Parking Charge for the above amount' and so it goes on. It later states 'we do not know both the name and serviceable address for the driver and as the registered keeper of the vehicle you are invited to pay the amount due nor if you were not the driver please provide their full name, current serviceable address and if possible pass this notice to them'.

I've read the Newbies advice and threads relating to IPC members and I have a couple of questions which I hope the more experienced amongst you could answer please. Firstly, does this letter amount to a Notice to Keeper? Secondly, if it does, should I add to my response (the IAS template response from MSE) that PAS's non-compliance with POFA means that they have forfeited any right to hold me as keeper liable for any charges? They were, in my view, non-compliant with Paragraph 9, given that the letter was received nearly 4 months after the alleged parking contravention; and Paragraph 8, as the land to which the alleged contravention relates was not readable due to an error in their printing on the letter. Finally would you suggest delaying my response until the 28th day, as I was unclear about this from the forums I've read in an IPC case?

Thanks, your advice is very much appreciated.

Just reminding us all what the issue was and that the NTK was nonPOFA. 

I would in fact reply to the LBC as that looks so much more reasonable later. 

Tell the solicitors that the driver was unable to be identified in 2017 and their client is unable to hold you liable as registered keeper. If they wanted to have that right they should have paid regard to the POFA schedule 4 deadlines for service of a Notice to keeper, as well as the statutory wording required as set out in 8(2)f or 9(2))f, as the case may be. 

Tell them to provide any evidence they have that may assist you to identify the driver and tell them that more than one person used that vehicle in 2017 and that you will not be naming them, nor are you obliged to show a private parking firm an old insurance document, even if you had it still lying around.

 You don’t have it and change insurer every year so it is impossible to supply as well as unreasonable for a private firm to ask, given anyone with third party insurance can drive other cars and the possible drivers are not restricted to people named on one document. 

Therefore, ask them to spare you the usual template intrusive letter asking for same. In simple terms, their client is clutching at straws and has no cause of action against a registered keeper, due to their own choice on 2017 not to take steps to identify the alleged contracting party and to take four months to bother to write to you.

johjames

Coupon-mad said:

johjames said:

Well, the irony is in the name, given that PAS appear to be run by a recognised scammer!

I received a 'Parking Charge Notice" from PAS in relation to an alleged offence which occurred in October of last year. The letter states 'The driver of the above vehicle is liable for a Parking Charge for the above amount' and so it goes on. It later states 'we do not know both the name and serviceable address for the driver and as the registered keeper of the vehicle you are invited to pay the amount due nor if you were not the driver please provide their full name, current serviceable address and if possible pass this notice to them'.

I've read the Newbies advice and threads relating to IPC members and I have a couple of questions which I hope the more experienced amongst you could answer please. Firstly, does this letter amount to a Notice to Keeper? Secondly, if it does, should I add to my response (the IAS template response from MSE) that PAS's non-compliance with POFA means that they have forfeited any right to hold me as keeper liable for any charges? They were, in my view, non-compliant with Paragraph 9, given that the letter was received nearly 4 months after the alleged parking contravention; and Paragraph 8, as the land to which the alleged contravention relates was not readable due to an error in their printing on the letter. Finally would you suggest delaying my response until the 28th day, as I was unclear about this from the forums I've read in an IPC case?

Thanks, your advice is very much appreciated.

Just reminding us all what the issue was and that the NTK was nonPOFA. 

I would in fact reply to the LBC as that looks so much more reasonable later. 

Tell the solicitors that the driver was unable to be identified in 2017 and their client is unable to hold you liable as registered keeper. If they wanted to have that right they should have paid regard to the POFA schedule 4 deadlines for service of a Notice to keeper, as well as the statutory wording required as set out in 8(2)f or 9(2))f, as the case may be. 

Tell them to provide any evidence they have that may assist you to identify the driver and tell them that more than one person used that vehicle in 2017 and that you will not be naming them, nor are you obliged to show a private parking firm an old insurance document, even if you had it still lying around.

 You don’t have it and change insurer every year so it is impossible to supply as well as unreasonable for a private firm to ask, given anyone with third party insurance can drive other cars and the possible drivers are not restricted to people named on one document. 

Therefore, ask them to spare you the usual template intrusive letter asking for same. In simple terms, their client is clutching at straws and has no cause of action against a registered keeper, due to their own choice on 2017 not to take steps to identify the alleged contracting party and to take four months to bother to write to you.

Thanks CouponMad. Would the letter below be up to snuff do you think, or should I add or redact anything?

To Whom it May Concern,

Re: Letter of Claim

Your reference: xxxxxxxx

The driver of the vehicle to which these PCN’s pertains was not able to be identified in 2017 and your client is not able to hold me liable as registered keeper. To have had this right, your client should have paid due regard to the POFA schedule 4 guidelines for service of a Notice to Keeper. They failed to do this and then proceeded to employ deception to excuse their failure to meet their statutory obligations, thereby bringing the DVLA into disrepute. Your client informed me that ‘The PCN sent to you was NonPOFA as the DVLA carried out an audit (to ensure legitimacy of the request) causing the issue of the PCN to be delayed.’ 

The DVLA have since contacted me in writing, advising me that your client’s claim is wholly untrue, stating that ‘The Agency has not undertaken any audits, during the period in question [xx/xx/2017-xx/xx/xxxx], on Parking Awareness Services Ltd (PAS). Also, and as advised previously, a DVLA audit would not be expected to delay the processing of requests for DVLA data. If an audit is being conducted, that should not affect the ability to request data from DVLA.’

Please provide any evidence you have which may assist me in identifying the driver as more than one person used the vehicle in question in 2017 and even if I were able to remember them all, which I am not, I would not be naming them. Nor would I be obliged to divulge the vehicle insurance document from 2017. Even were I to have this document, it would have no bearing on this matter, because any individual with third party insurance can drive other vehicles and so the possible drivers would not be limited to the names on such a document.

Please spare me the intrusive template response which firms such as yours tend to rely upon to demand information which they are not entitled to from innocent parties.

Your client’s claim is entirely without merit and their ongoing behaviour in relation to this matter is causing me distress. The fact that you deem it fit to proceed to embark upon sending a Letter of Claim, when your client had employed evidenced and documented deceit to excuse their lack of compliance with statute is troubling. They have no cause of action against a registered keeper because they chose in 2017 not to take the appropriate steps to identify the alleged contracting party, instead they waited for months before they saw fit to write to me and they then, as I have evidenced above, flagrantly lied as to the reason for this delay when challenged.

The time I have had to expend dealing with this matter, despite the fact which is both vexatious and unmerited has been significant and as a medical professional working during the pandemic it is wasting my time, of which I have precious little.

Regards,

johjames

Le_Kirk said:

Yes, they are allowed to charge you if they discover it is a another request.  Check the date you submitted yours, it is more than 30 days ago, then CHASE them for a response.

I'll chase them