LG's Privacy policy stops me using new TV

asj100

I have just purchased a new 55 inch Smart 4K TV (LG).

Out of the box, set up and plugged in works great... tried to use Smart online Internet features and was presented with a click box demanding I accept their Privacy Policy.

To say it was the worst thing I have ever read would be overstating things, but it did effectively say "we will collect anything and everything we want too, Oh and if we get hacked and your data is stolen, THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE INTERNET and we are not accountable and you can't claim damages from us..

I naturally declined to accept their Privacy Policy...

The end result is unless I accept their policy, I can't use the MY! TV to access the Internet in ANY FORM.. That is effectively blackmail..

My question is, in my opinion the TV is NOT as it was described at the point of sale.
It was displayed as a Smart 4K TV, the Privacy policy was not available at the point of sale, it is not available on the company's website and it is not listed either on the packaging OR the instruction manual which came with the TV.
It is only available when you switch on the TV and go through the set up process.
Most importantly at the point of sale it does not inform you at any point that acceptance of the Privacy Policy is a condition of using the Smart features of the TV Set.

Accepting that they can record conversations in my living room, track everything I watch on TV, every website I log onto online and I have to accept that targeted personalised adverts will be sent to me. Is not what I purchased.

So I am sending the TV back as not as described and therefore not fit for purpose. (because I will not accept the Privacy Policy.

I also think that if a contact term affects the operation of an item, that should also form part of the buying experience and be made available at the point of sale. The term, as in this instance would have dramatically affected my decision to buy the product from this manufacturer.

The Internet is supposed to be open and free, yet these company's are attempting to lay claim to everything we want to do online and are blocking us at almost every turn. That is censorship in another form.

I should have the right to withhold any and if I desire all my personal data and the removal of these rights is almost being taken completely away from the individual.

I am returning the TV to the store, they state it is not faulty and they will not acept a return and demand for a refund. I have asked them to log online and show me BBC iplayer catch up service without accepting the LG privacy Policy and I will agree it is "Fit for purpose".

I would also like to see this kind of bully tactic being outlawed and also everyone should have the right to refuse to accept a policy if they disagree with the contents and not suffer a loss of the use of the equipment that is now their property. Now if LG wishes to pay 50% of the purchase price and have access to the TV, then I think they would have the right to dictate how I use the TV,,, until then it is mine and I have an ISP which gives me unrestricted access to the Internet. I do not need to go via their servers and I have no desire to contribute to their data knowledge.

I think the Data Protection Commissionaires should investigate these policies and their take it or leave attitude and the kind of contempt these companies show their clients... If you use an LG product online (phone as well) I suggest you carefully read the Privacy Policy your continued use of the items is also used as your acceptance of that policy... Also, it seems that I have accepted a reasonable policy, only for it to change within hours. I am not informed and the wonderful term "Your continued use of our services will be deemed as acceptance of these changes... THAT SHOULD BE STOPPED..

bengalknights

You purchased a smart tv , the Apps within that TV are defined by there very own policy's.

However from a retailers perspective you are able to watch tv and display videos, pics etc via features of the TV there fore its considered smart.

This is probably something you want to take up with LG if you dont get a refund and dont want to sideload alternative apps to avoid the privacy statement.

giraffe69

I've recently bought a similar TV and don't know what the fuss is all about.

How exactly is LG recording what is happening in my or your living room? I've not yet (in 4 months) had any advert personalised or not being sent to me.

I think you should get it sent back if possible and stick to cathode ray tubes from now on.

[Deleted User]

SMART features are not part of any warranty and can be removed without ceremony, so I sincerely doubt the OP will get anywhere arguing the TV is not fit for purpose.

asj100 wrote: »

Accepting that they can record conversations in my living room, track everything I watch on TV, every website I log onto online and I have to accept that targeted personalised adverts will be sent to me. Is not what I purchased.

Record conversations in your living room? How?

Send you personalised adverts? Again, how?

asj100 wrote: »

The internet is supposed to be open and free

If you truly believe that one I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you..

iniltous

There was quite a lot about this a few months ago, it may have been more to do with Alexa type devices that are constantly listening for your instructions but could easily apply to smart TV's if they have a built in microphone, perhaps you can change channel by speaking the channel name you want, so obviously there is a capability there to capture any audio and sent it back to whoever, I'm not sure if LG tv's have a microphone that's constantly on, but it's certainly possible, and as far as monitoring your TV and browsing/internet habits , that's almost a given, you can block or remove cookies etc on your PC or tablet , perhaps the TV T&C's strickly deny you this option .
As others have said , it doubtful it's reason enough to reject the TV but I don't think the OP is being particularly paranoid either, TBH how many would even bother reading the privacy policy and would just tick the 'I accept' box

custardy

What model of LG is it?

asj100

First of all, thank you to those who think sarcasm is helpful, best save your fingers as no one really likes that kind of response.

The remote that came with the TV has a mic fitted that allows you to tell the TV to turn over, select a channel and so the T&C in the policy actually tell you it is recording all the time and waiting for a KEYWORD instruction.. The TV is linked to their servers, so conversations can be recorded and uploaded. LG has now supplied me with a new remote with no Mic fitted. they did this because there is no facility for me to turn off the microphone in the TV set up.

Next not as described: Advertised as a smart TV, sold as a system able to accept and give access to iPlayer and Netflicks and such, (Yes I know each has its own Policy.) BUT unless I accept LG's Policy, I can't even log on to my own website never mind anyone else.

So no external access to the Internet available at all and no smart features operational.... If this was after the 18th May, I could demand they open their services to me as it will become illegal under the new GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation). regulations it will become illegal to withhold services only if consent to collect data is withheld...

As for going back to a tube TV, been there done that, also been writing software for companies, especially process and communications systems for companies all over the world (First project in 1979 (English Tourist Board). I wrote their very first automated update system accessing 161 offices around the UK... (2800 baud rate modems) So system had to have inbuilt data compression to enable system to work..

Why I am I so bothered by this policy, Because I know what is possible and how easy it is to do.

If you knew how easy your information can be captured and transmitted without your knowledge and consent, your toes would curl.
One TV manufacturer has been fined for pixel capture.. their TV's captured a small area of the pixel display on the screen, that was sent to the main server, checked against their program database, identified the program your watching and recorded all that information... they faced a huge fine 1, because they took the information without consent or the person's knowledge and 2 they sold all the data including age, address and number in household.... You subscribe to a TV service, linking that to your viewing habits is a huge data set for a whole range of people. Programs viewed can give such information as age range living at your address. The likely number of people, political direction, sex and even orientation.

My main issue with the policy was their disclaimer, if they get hacked and my data is lost and used against me and I suffer losses because they lost my data, they are not liable???? Ya right, that works for me....NOT!

[Deleted User]

I'm sure LG will be employing a listener for each of your conversations ready to target you with advertising based on what you say.

I don't think we've quite reached the "Big Brother" scenario yet. Certainly the disclaimers are there to protect them from possible litigation, but unless you are planning to overthrow the government etc, I don't think you need be concerned about your voice-operated remote. Regardless, if you've had that remote replaced then you can hardly now demand that the retailer take the whole set back.

I do think it's inevitable that as technology advances there will be opportunities for further "targeted" advertising. Do you also refuse loyalty cards in Supermarkets and other shops? Facebook already uses targeted advertising based on the words you type, do you therefore avoid social media?

I agree that no information should be stored and marketed without your prior knowledge and permission, but that's not the case here.

Finally, what "losses" do you anticipate having as a result of information gathered from your television watching habits being hacked? The firms putting in such disclaimers would have a hard time relying on them in court if anyone truly suffered any such losses.

The internet will never be "open and free" and you are fighting a losing battle if you carry on believing that it is (or even should be)

LesU

For the less complacent smart tv owners out there, this article may be of some interest.
I don't know how applicable it is to the UK, but it makes for some interesting reading.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/smart-tv-privacy-problems-vizio-samsung-lg-sony-panasonic-2952175

esuhl

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

I don't think we've quite reached the "Big Brother" scenario yet.

Oh, no -- we just have telescreens in our homes listening to what we say.

I can't see how a hardware manufacturer can sell goods that don't work unless you agree to a contract you weren't even aware of when buying the device.

You can't be forced to accept the terms of a contract you haven't seen. And you can't be forced to accept goods that don't perform the advertised function.

I'd be looking at the appropriate legislation with a view to returning the TV to the seller for a full refund (as not fit for purpose).

asj100

I think my objection may have been lost in the way I have written my posts, the fact is I object to having any data collected without my expressed consent, I also want to be able to control everything that I hold personal as mine.

Loyalty cards, never owned one, Social Media, I have friends where I live and work.. so never seen the need and not had the desire to even go look at what it is about... why? Anything that is supplied free usually comes at a high price somewhere along the ride.

Someone demanding an open door to whatever they decide they can collect about me is an unwarranted intrusion and unacceptable.

Are you telling me if everyone say no not signing that and if your product doesn't work unless I agree to do what you demand, I will not buy your products again, that things would not change.

Apple, Google, Samsung, LG, NY Stock exchange, HMRC, BT, Banks, supermarkets and even churches, what do they all have in common, they have all been hacked and personal data stolen.

Would you give your car keys to a garage if you know they get broken in to every week and keys are stolen and cars driven off... no, so why do people give it to companies, the majority don't even read privacy policies, they are written to be long and difficult and the worst aspects are always at the end, never in the beginning... I read them all, object to most and agree with a few..