NHS Sick leave policy puts you in a no-win situation

NWOIHTS

Hi

When I started working in the NHS I'd heard various things about the being off sick policy. I was working in a certain team first time I worked there, I had a knee injury that kept flairing up and I couldn't walk for days, so I was off a good couple of times for say 3 or 4 days. Manager was quite easy going so just signed off my absence review as she knew I wasn't at it.

Apparently if you are off more than 4 periods in a rolling year you get a back to work interview, and if it happens again you can actually get put on a disciplinary. I'm now in a team where the manager is a stalwart and I ended up breaching the 4 periods in a year policy, got a big long interview which I found stressful.

I was actually off 1 day with severe stress because the management don't do their job and we are left to pick up all the pieces, and have loads of work pushed down onto us, with lots of problems no one knows how to solve. I was then off with gout twice, I should have stayed off longer and let it heal properly, then I had done my ankle in and was off for 5 days.

I think this is grossly unfair and does not take any of your circumstances into account. The managers should surely know when someone is at it, and someone is genuinely ill, i.e. Doctors letters and/or appointment letters.

Although I find going into greater details about any illness with my employer a tad beyond the pale sometimes.

Long and short of it is, I f I was to go off between now and about the 20th of Feb, I could get put on a disciplinary.

Anyone else experienced this side of the NHS sick policy?

Thanks

Andrew

lakes17

Welcome to the real world! This has been happening in a majority of places both public and private sector for a long time

martinbuckley

Over the past few years, I think the whole of the Civil Service has moved to a more formal approach with respect to sickness absence. It used to be where some people used sickness as an addition to their annual leave allowance, as there was an amount (10 working days I think) of sick leave tolerance each leave year. Nowadays, the rolling period means that the lead swingers who used to take 10 sick days per year on top of their 30 days annual leave will be rooted out.

Unfortunately, the policy also means that those who are genuinely ill will also face scrutiny at a very early stage, although it shouldn't necessarily mean that someone is put on a disciplinary for having cancer or being in a car crash as managers can (and should) have the authority to override. It is aimed at those who regularly take a day off a month with a headache, or sniffle, but do nothing about their condition, such as take vitamins, or seek medical advice for their regular and recurring "illnesses".

FBaby

What kind of job are you doing?

Frankly, being off sick for one day for 'severe stress' would raise alarm bell with me as it takes much longer than a day to recover from severe stress. Gout can be very painful, but most of the time manageable with strong pain killers, so unless it was in your feet (rather than hands) and your job means you are walking a lot, then I would think it reasonable to attempt to come to work (same with knee pain).

Your attitude of shock to the policy would indicate that indeed, you don't take sickness leave very seriously. The NHS is on its last leg at the moment and lack of staffing has a significant impact on performance. If you make too easy to people being off sick with the slightness ailment, you end up with services that are constantly disturbed.

If you have a health condition that makes it difficult for you to carry out your responsibility, than you need to raise this with OH.

As for moaning, maybe you could turn it around and realise how fortunate you are to work for an employer who will continue to pay for your absence at full pay for months if you needed to be off for a serious lasting condition.

comeandgo

If you are having to take so much sick time off then it may be you are not fit for the job and should look for a job where a sore knee does not mean you need days off. My employer uses the same system as NHS.

soolin

I agree with the above. The public sector used to be incredibly lenient with sick leave , it became a real outlier compared to the rest of the employers. They are just about catching up now but still tend to 'allow' more sick leave than the private sector without triggering any sort of investigation.

Unfortunately/luckily? Managers can't just sign off contestant absences anymore without triggering HR or even OH reviews. In some ways this can safeguard an employee, for instance a number of periods of sickness may indicate an underlying issue that perhaps the employer can assist with.

TELLIT01

Many companies, public and private, have clearly defined sickness absence policies. It would seem in the case of the OP that he previous manager failed to implement the system properly, but her new manager did it by the book.
I don't see that the OP has any basis for complaining about what the new manager has done.
The OP has clearly worked for the NHS for a considerable time so should have been aware of official policy.

sangie595

I agree - the person at fault was the original manager who did not implement policy. The policy does not exist to "catch people at it". It exists to manage attendance. Whatever one thinks of such policies, if a policy exists, it should be uniformly applied and not based on persona whim of management.

"The big long interview" is actually designed to look at whether the employer can do anything to support you in reducing your absences. It is good for you that you do, and good for them that you do.

Ozzuk

Many private firms you'd be out already, or at least at significant risk!

motorguy

NWOIHTS wrote: »

I was actually off 1 day with severe stress

Trust me on this - you werent off with "severe stress" and then recover in one day.

As per everyone elses comments - welcome to the real world.

On the plus side, theres plenty of businesses out there would probably have you managed out by now.

Comms69

NWOIHTS wrote: »

Hi

When I started working in the NHS I'd heard various things about the being off sick policy. I was working in a certain team first time I worked there, I had a knee injury that kept flairing up and I couldn't walk for days, so I was off a good couple of times for say 3 or 4 days. Manager was quite easy going so just signed off my absence review as she knew I wasn't at it.

Apparently if you are off more than 4 periods in a rolling year you get a back to work interview - I get one every time im off sick. (not that it has happened often!) , and if it happens again you can actually get put on a disciplinary. I'm now in a team where the manager is a stalwart and I ended up breaching the 4 periods in a year policy, got a big long interview which I found stressful. - Stressful? Why?

I was actually off 1 day with severe stress because the management don't do their job and we are left to pick up all the pieces, and have loads of work pushed down onto us, with lots of problems no one knows how to solve. I was then off with gout twice, I should have stayed off longer and let it heal properly, then I had done my ankle in and was off for 5 days.

I think this is grossly unfair and does not take any of your circumstances into account. - Why, you aren't doing the job they're paying you to do. It seems perfectly reasonable to intervene. RTW interviews are about offering support as much as being pre-disciplinary The managers should surely know when someone is at it, and someone is genuinely ill, i.e. Doctors letters and/or appointment letters. - If someone is 'at it' that's dismissal. Someone being genuinely ill, is still potentially a disciplinary

Although I find going into greater details about any illness with my employer a tad beyond the pale sometimes. - why?

Long and short of it is, I f I was to go off between now and about the 20th of Feb, I could get put on a disciplinary.

Anyone else experienced this side of the NHS sick policy? - Thousands of people

Thanks

Andrew

Being sick does not mean you cant be dismissed.