NHS Sick leave policy puts you in a no-win situation

sangie595

Nicki wrote: »

OP sounds a bit of a work shy shirker to me. I've got a chronic knee condition which causes a lot of pain and have often gone into work with crutches or a walking stick - it isn't the kind of thing you need time off to deal with unlike for example a high fever or contagious illness. My OH has had attacks of gout for years and although these are also very painful he's never had a day off work either.

OP works in IT - so whilst he may need to walk from desk to desk at work it's not like he's a bobby on the beat or on his feet for 10 hour shifts. If he doesn't want to take pain killers he's going to be in pain wherever he is, so may as well be at work as at home watching Jeremy Kyle! And if he wasn't on full pay for these sickies that's probably where he would be!

I'm afraid I'd agree. It isn't like they are a nurse or a paramedic or orderly - someone on their feet and doing the heavy lifting all day. And those people have the same policy applied to them! Much as a hate the whole "i went to work with a broken back" syndrome, seriouslycv they need to get a grip. I went to work with a broken ankle and my hip breaking down (literally, it was crumbling away). I'm not suggesting others do. But really? It's a desk job.

Nicki

Comms69 wrote: »

Gout is incredibly rare nowadays - it's caused by poor diet, not necessarily being overweight though.

Rubbish on both accounts! It's a form of arthritis and tends to run in families. It is more prevalent if you drink alcohol or if you're overweight though so pinkshoes is right about that.

The foods which are known to exacerbate it are meat, shellfish and asparagus none of which are usually considered unhealthy. Anything with a high level of purine basically which causes uric acid levels to rise in the body. The pain is caused when uric acid crystallises and then splinters often as a result of a minor trauma like a stubbed toe

Comms69

sangie595 wrote: »

I'm afraid I'd agree. It isn't like they are a nurse or a paramedic or orderly - someone on their feet and doing the heavy lifting all day. And those people have the same policy applied to them! Much as a hate the whole "i went to work with a broken back" syndrome, seriouslycv they need to get a grip. I went to work with a broken ankle and my hip breaking down (literally, it was crumbling away). I'm not suggesting others do. But really? It's a desk job.

And on top of which, remote working is quite common - a good friend of mine works in IT for the NHS and he provides weekends on-call cover from home.

sangie595

Comms69 wrote: »

Gout is incredibly rare nowadays - it's caused by poor diet, not necessarily being overweight though.

No, it isn't rare. About 1 in 40 people in the UK suffer from gout, but it is usually now described as arthritis - which is is one form of. And it is not caused by poor diet either. It is caused by excess Uric Acid in the body, which forms crystals which are then deposited in the joints, causing excruciating pain in suffers. A perfectly normal and healthy diet can be one of the triggers - purines in certain types of foods can be a contributing factor, and you'd be surprised how "healthy" most of those foods are. It doesn't require an excess of food to trigger an attack. Stress, certain drugs, even illness can also be a trigger, as can genetics in some people.

Oops cross posted with Nicki!

Comms69

Nicki wrote: »

Rubbish on both accounts! It's a form of arthritis and tends to run in families. It is more prevalent if you drink alcohol or if you're overweight though so pinkshoes is right about that.

The foods which are known to exacerbate it are meat, shellfish and asparagus none of which are usually considered unhealthy. Anything with a high level of purine basically which causes uric acid levels to rise in the body. The pain is caused when uric acid crystallises and then splinters often as a result of a minor trauma like a stubbed toe

You don't have to be overweight to have gout.
It's most commonly caused by diet.


We can have differing opinions on what is or is not a good diet; but I'd argue that if it's one that causes gout, by definition it's not 'good'

Comms69

sangie595 wrote: »

No, it isn't rare. About 1 in 40 people in the UK suffer from gout, but it is usually now described as arthritis - which is is one form of. And it is not caused by poor diet either. It is caused by excess Uric Acid in the body, which forms crystals which are then deposited in the joints, causing excruciating pain in suffers. A perfectly normal and healthy diet can be one of the triggers - purines in certain types of foods can be a contributing factor, and you'd be surprised how "healthy" most of those foods are. It doesn't require an excess of food to trigger an attack. Stress, certain drugs, even illness can also be a trigger, as can genetics in some people.

Oops cross posted with Nicki!

I think we're getting into a debate about what is and isn't a 'good' diet. - which to be fair is more interesting than one on the gestapo at least.


I thought the figure was actually much lower, but fair enough I stand corrected on that.


Foods which can cause problems include, most commonly:
Red meat and organ meats (liver, tongue and sweetbreads)
Shellfish such as shrimp and lobster
Refined carbohydrates (white bread, white rice, pasta, sugar)
Processed foods (chips, snack foods, frozen dinners)
Sugary beverages
Alcohol (If you drink, limit it to no more than one alcoholic drink for women and two for men within 24 hours.)


Which are fine in moderation, but the cause is excess consumption of that type of food.


Arthirits.org lists the top causes: http://www.arthritis.org/about-arthritis/types/gout/what-is-gout.php


and 4/5 of the 9 listed are diet related.

pinkshoes

I only brought up the topic as the op was implying they should be treated differently as their illnesses are genuine, but if they were indeed overweight, then this could potentially be exasperating the condition(s).

E.g my gran had join issues and was always moaning about the pain but forever eating biscuits. Unfortunately she suffered a small stroke which meant the bit of her brain died that indicated hunger, so she lost weight. In fact she went from a size 20 to a size 8!!! She never had joint pain again!

sangie595

Comms69 wrote: »

I think we're getting into a debate about what is and isn't a 'good' diet. - which to be fair is more interesting than one on the gestapo at least.


I thought the figure was actually much lower, but fair enough I stand corrected on that.


Foods which can cause problems include, most commonly:
Red meat and organ meats (liver, tongue and sweetbreads)
Shellfish such as shrimp and lobster
Refined carbohydrates (white bread, white rice, pasta, sugar)
Processed foods (chips, snack foods, frozen dinners)
Sugary beverages
Alcohol (If you drink, limit it to no more than one alcoholic drink for women and two for men within 24 hours.)


Which are fine in moderation, but the cause is excess consumption of that type of food.


Arthirits.org lists the top causes: http://www.arthritis.org/about-arthritis/types/gout/what-is-gout.php


and 4/5 of the 9 listed are diet related.

No. It is not about eating an excess of those foods. Even small amounts can trigger an attack. It depends on the individual. I am not overweight, I have a healthy diet, I rarely consume alcohol, and I got it for a period of time - they believe the additional factor was illness, but we have also found that I normally have levels of uric acid in the high end of the " normal" spectrum. That's just genetics. So it doesn't take a lot to tip me over the edge and it was probably illness, and some prawns that I had eaten without any issues ever in the previous 50 years!

When I mentioned to people that I was having some attacks of gout, I was gobsmacked how many people replied that they suffered from it! Because of the poor attitudes of people assuming that gout is self inflicted, people don't talk about it for fear of being ridiculed.
http://www.ukgoutsociety.org/all_about_gout.htm

Diamandis

I would be thrilled to have a sick policy as good as the NHS provide. Getting paid for not being at work and getting multiple warnings seems pretty fantastic to me.

Everyone can give a good reason for being off sick, you seem to think that your reasons deserve special treatment.

Either go to work more often or find another employer who is happy to give you unlimited leave.

motorguy

t0rt0ise wrote: »

I used to work in the NHS and a woman there had asthma and chest problems and got chest infections. She would always come in to start with so everyone knew she was ill, and then take a couple of days off to get to the GP and get antibiotics. She got disciplined and the result was that she was told not to be ill for the next 9 months. Ridiculous! She failed and left a while later which is probably what the employer really wanted.

Any organisation needs to consider the disruption that a sick employee causes on an ongoing basis and whether or not they can afford to facilitate that.

Was she doing everything she absolutely could? It sounds like she wasnt managing her asthma very well if she had severe attacks regularly.

If she was unable to commit to attending work as per her contracted hours consistently, then its right she shouldnt be there.

t0rt0ise wrote: »

I agree with the OP, the whole thing is an inappropriate way to manage staff illness.

So people shouldnt be interviewed to see if (a) they are doing everything to help themselves, (b) the organisation is doing enough to help or can offer help and (c) to understand if this is a long term condition or if the situation will improve?

Just let people take off sick as much as they like?