Deductions from pay

redsaxon

sangie595 wrote: »

The way they took it is lawful. You may think of it as a deduction. The law doesn't. You were overpaid and that required a correction in the salary. That is not the same thing as a deduction.

I am somewhat confused though. How could you not notice that you had a lot of time off sick, but didn't get a reduced wage? Whilst I can see this may cause you some personal issues, it's hard to suggest a possible strategy to discuss with the employer when it seems that you must have known you were overpaid. The employers mossy obvious question is why didn't you tell them they had overpaid you?

They were deducting money so i wrongly assumed it was being taken care of.I have tried to discuss it with them and come to a compromise but they wont even return my call.

redsaxon

sangie595 wrote: »

So you did know you had been overpaid. You took it in one lump sum. And you spent it. So what on earth made you think it wouldn't be fair for the employer to do exactly the same thing?

I'm afraid that it is you in the wrong here. Trying to quote a law that doesn't exist to force the employer to do something they don't have to do is not the way to go about this. You are being unreasonable.

Im not quoting any law,i was asking for advice nothing less,guess we just get judged here!

sangie595

redsaxon wrote: »

Im not quoting any law,i was asking for advice nothing less,guess we just get judged here!

No. You are the one saying they are being unreasonable for doing exactly what you did! You asked for some way of stopping them doing it - so you are asking for a way of forcing them to do it another way. That means a law that forces them to do so. What you want us to do is to find you a way to make them do what you want. That doesn't exist. But by all means have a go at people trying to help you and asking questions you don't like answering. I'm out. Have fun...

redsaxon

sangie595 wrote: »

No. You are the one saying they are being unreasonable for doing exactly what you did! You asked for some way of stopping them doing it - so you are asking for a way of forcing them to do it another way. That means a law that forces them to do so. What you want us to do is to find you a way to make them do what you want. That doesn't exist. But by all means have a go at people trying to help you and asking questions you don't like answering. I'm out. Have fun...

im not having a go sangie,i appreciate every reply,ive never had a salaried job before and im unsure of rules and regulations etc,im just shocked that a employer can deduct a large chunk of wages without prior notice or warning.Sorry if i have offended you it was not my intention.

lakes17

Have you contacted the company's you can't pay and explain the situation. They are more likely to be helpful if they know in advance that you won't be able to pay them this month. You could also discuss paying the arrears of over the next few months.

daisy23169

Unfortunately, as already stated, your employer hasn't acted incorrectly. They have presumably acted upon the assumption that you know sickness absence is unpaid and therefore should have anticipated the correction to your pay, plus if it's a huge company they probably don't have the resources to get in touch and discuss the situation with every employee who goes off sick.

I'm a payroll manager and I like to think I'm a reasonably nice person. If an employee came to me in this circumstance and explained it was causing severe financial hardship, signed an agreement to repay the overpaid wages and most importantly, was not an employee who I considered to be a risk of doing a runner, then I would consider exercising my discretion and agreeing to return some funds which would then be repaid over an agreed term as per the signed agreement.

Sadly, if during the course of the conversation the employee announced they were planning to find a new job asap, I wouldn't take the risk of entering into a repayment agreement in case they legged it before they'd paid up. If I've already got my employer's money back then I'm not risking losing it again if I'm not confident in the employee's word that they'll stick to an agreement.

Your employer has the upper hand here, so all you can do is politely request their support and goodwill. Hopefully you haven't already burned that bridge.

redsaxon

daisy23169 wrote: »

Unfortunately, as already stated, your employer hasn't acted incorrectly. They have presumably acted upon the assumption that you know sickness absence is unpaid and therefore should have anticipated the correction to your pay, plus if it's a huge company they probably don't have the resources to get in touch and discuss the situation with every employee who goes off sick.

I'm a payroll manager and I like to think I'm a reasonably nice person. If an employee came to me in this circumstance and explained it was causing severe financial hardship, signed an agreement to repay the overpaid wages and most importantly, was not an employee who I considered to be a risk of doing a runner, then I would consider exercising my discretion and agreeing to return some funds which would then be repaid over an agreed term as per the signed agreement.

Sadly, if during the course of the conversation the employee announced they were planning to find a new job asap, I wouldn't take the risk of entering into a repayment agreement in case they legged it before they'd paid up. If I've already got my employer's money back then I'm not risking losing it again if I'm not confident in the employee's word that they'll stick to an agreement.

Your employer has the upper hand here, so all you can do is politely request their support and goodwill. Hopefully you haven't already burned that bridge.

Thankyou Daisy i wish you were my HR manager,i really want to resolve this,i love my job and the people i work with but through anger i may of said things that wont help my situation,:(

jobbingmusician

OK. I can well appreciate that this has come as a terrible shock. The OP may have a discretionary sick pay scheme, for all we know. S/he maybe should have anticipated the fact that an overpayment had taken place, but they didn't.

Let's put aside the fact (and it IS a fact) that your employer is acting like a total !!!!!!, and address the fact that you are horribly short of money for a month. You do have options - you are not on the street yet, and you won't be if you take some steps to prevent it.

The steps below aren't written in stone. I'm not an expert, just someone who reads these boards a lot and has a bit of experience in debt management. Others may come along with better suggestions (especially if you get yourself over to the debt free wannabee board - more about that later.)

Firstly, and most importantly, contact your landlord and the council tax people and explain that you have a problem and that, basically, you are unexpectedly down one month's wage. Clarify that you are not unemployed, your employment continues, but that you cannot make a payment this month, although you shouldn't have any problems after this month. Make a proposal about how you will repay your underpayment (for example - and I have no idea how much your rent is so this is only a suggestion - that you will pay an extra £50 a month until this debt is paid off.) Same with the council tax, although presumably this will be a lot lower.

Obviously your income will be lower over the time you are repaying this rent and CT. If you are already struggling a bit each month, do go over to the debt free wannabee board on this forum, where kind people will give you lots of suggestions about how to cut monthly costs. The old style board will also help you - especially with minimising food bills.

Remember, although you feel horrid at the moment, this is simply a debt which has to be repaid. You're doing it all in one horrid hit, but you're not actually paying more than if your employer was being more reasonable and sensible.

IF - and is is a big if - your landlord won't accept your proposal to repay gradually, or if he demands payments higher than you can afford, you can consider taking out a loan to pay your rent this month. One clever way to do this might be to put all your day to day spending on a credit card this month, and then transfer that balance to a zero percent card next month (only do this if your credit is good enough that you would get a zero percent card, if you applied for one). Hint - if you take out a loan from a bank I personally would be a bit private about the 'unexpected family expense' which makes the loan necessary. The more you can imply that it's a genuine unforseeable expense, the more likely you are to get the loan. An employer behaving like a stupid selfish child is less likely to get you granted the money.

Go and have a look at debtfreewannabe. People on there manage to pay back debts of hundreds of thousands of pounds. You can do this! It's a short term hump and you will get over it. (But as you will have gathered, you do have my total sympathy for having such an unpleasant employer.)

While I was writing this, Daisy posted. I totally agree that talking to the employer is an excellent idea. If you've said anything silly, apologise profusely and explain that it was because you were panicking. You have nothing to lose by trying to charm them into a better situation.

daisy23169

Have you got an email address for HR or payroll? I would suggest a polite email explaining that the correction to your pay has left you in financial difficulty and asking whether it would be possible to spread the repayment over a longer period. You need to suggest a realistic period (2 months, maybe 3 months maximum not something like a year) and offer to sign an agreement acknowledging the amount owed and confirming your commitment to the repayment terms.

If you think you might have been rude on the phone in the heat of the moment, then acknowledge this and apologise for it - this may help to foster some good will which you need!

They may still say no, but it doesn't hurt to ask politely. If you think your manager will be supportive, speak to them too as they may be able to vouch for you.

You can only ask, so give it a shot.

FBaby

Unfortunately you've handled the whole situation very badly and you are now paying the price for it. Firstly, it sounds like a lot of sickness in a short period of time, so that alone is likely to have made you not very popular with the company. They don't enjoy disciplining their staff and would rather not have to do so. The fact you kept your job means that they were prepared to give you another chance, but most likely just about.

You then got paid in Nov and December for these sick days (at least for some of them) and you opted to not raise the fact that they had overpaid you then. Why didn't you unless it was because you were hoping they wouldn't notice? Again, when that was discovered, it probably didn't go well that you felt no need to bring it up. So now they are annoyed (even though it was their mistake) and legally did what they are entitled to and take it all back in one go.

Even then, they might have felt bad about your situation and consider negotiating an arrangement for repayment, you go all blazing about how they have no right to do that, that they should have warned you and that you are going to end up homeless because of them, which clearly annoyed them even more. It's pretty clear now that they are hoping that you will resign because it's easier for them to deal with it if you do than sacking you.

I hope for you the above is incorrect but if I were you, I would definitely start looking for another job.