CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LTD online Appeal process

brasillia17

I have read through the newbie Thread as I have received my first postal PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd. I was looking to send the templated appeal via their online appeal process but have decided to email instead. The reason for this is because for you to use their online appeal process the first question they ask after your PCN NO: and vehicle registration is if you are the driver of this vehicle. You have to click yes or no to proceed (if you click no and this was to go to court and you infact was the driver could this somehow make your case look less legitimate).

I feel that because of the wording in the template about non admission of driver details it may be best to send an email or postal copy of my appeal. Any thoughts?

Umkomaas

You have to click yes or no to proceed (if you click no and this was to go to court and you infact was the driver could this somehow make your case look less legitimate).

Only if they can prove who the driver was! It won’t go to court if you play your game as per advice here.

But, if you know better, carry on.

Coupon-mad

The reason for this is because for you to use their online appeal process the first question they ask after your PCN NO: and vehicle registration is if you are the driver of this vehicle.

Complain to the BPA and DVLA, because PPCs are not allowed to make it a condition of a keeper appeal that they declare if they were driving or not, effectively stopping a keeper from appealing:

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

and

david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

Do that first, this week, if you have plenty of time left.

brasillia17

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Complain to the BPA and DVLA, because PPCs are not allowed to make it a condition of a keeper appeal that they declare if they were driving or not, effectively stopping a keeper from appealing:

steve.c@britishparking.co.uk

and

david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

Do that first, this week, if you have plenty of time left.

Thank you, I have only received it today the PCN issue date is the 12/01. So if I complain to them, what am I likely to achieve from making that complaint? Is this something I would include in my initial appeal to them once I've had a response from the BPA and DVLA?

Coupon-mad

The aim is that the BPA tell CEL to remove that question from their appeals page, as it's not allowed.

Is this something I would include in my initial appeal to them once I've had a response from the BPA and DVLA?

No, you really do only need the blue template, unchanged.

brasillia17

Ok, I will raise it with them as you suggested and just send the templated email to civil enforcement. Thanks.

brasillia17

Mr ******
Thanks for your email.
I don't see an issue here. If you were the driver say so, if not don't.
CEL will doubtless be using the keeper liability provisions of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act where they can hold the keeper liable as if he is the driver.
Please heed this advice which is in no way meant to be a threat, but CEL routinely take motorists to Court and they may seek to use any action that you undertake now as part of their case - if you lose at Court, your charge could be somewhat higher than it is now.
Good luck with your appeal.
Best
Steve ******
Head of Business Operations

Sent from my iPad
Hide quoted text

On 15 Jan 2018, ******** wrote:

Dear Sirs,

I have today received a postal PCN from Civil Enforcement LTD and I intend to appeal as the keeper of the vehicle.

I was going to appeal via their online appeal process but for me to use their online appeal process however the first question they ask after your PCN NO: and vehicle registration is if you are the driver of this vehicle (as per attachment) and you have to click yes or no to proceed with the appeal process.

I do not feel this is fair for them to add a condition of my appeal that I declare if I were the driver of the vehicle and thought it may be best to bring this to your attention.

Kind regards,

This is an email response from DVLA any thoughts on this??

Quentin

If you have left your real name in the above post then edit it out.

The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your posts against you

Coupon-mad

Dear Steve,

You say:

''CEL will doubtless be using the keeper liability provisions of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act where they can hold the keeper liable as if he is the driver.''

A - No, CEL never do, as discussed every day on MSE forum. CEL do not rely upon the POFA and never have.

''CEL routinely take motorists to Court and they may seek to use any action that you undertake now as part of their case - if you lose at Court, your charge could be somewhat higher than it is now.''

A - Wow, that's alarmist and unnecessary. CEL routinely discontinue every case defended on MSE, bar none.

''I don't see an issue here.''

A - We do, and so did the BPA in 2014, so has the BPA been watered down since then? CEL are now requiring that a keeper answer a direct question: 'yes' or 'no' (i.e. making a POPLA code conditional on saying if they were the driver or not, which is not allowed). Even the IAS have an option 'prefer not to say' and MSE regulars recall that IPC members were stopped by the DVLA from this same little trick, a few years back. I assume the BPA must have forgotten Siross' case on MSE, post 108, and the message that the BPA themselves sent out to all members:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4812014

I have had a positive response from the DVLA, please see below:

Dear Mr XXXX,

Thank you for your patience in this matter.

The British Parking Association have now provided a response to myself.

The BPA have confirmed that this practice should not be occurring (as we already knew) and have taken steps to address this behaviour throughout the industry as this may not be an isolated incident.

The following message has now been issued by the BPA to all of their members...

“the following practices may be considered as Code breaches and must not be continued:
• Asking the motorist to enter into additional correspondence to obtain a POPLA code
• Failing to include a correct and/or valid POPLA Code within the Rejection correspondence
• Issuing a POPLA Code with a date identifier which is significantly different from the date of rejection
• Appearing to indicate that the issue of a POPLA Code is conditional on driver details being supplied “
I am hoping that this type of incident will not be occurring any more.

I wish to thank you of bringing this matter to the DVLA’s attention and ultimately, the BPA’s.

If you do encounter any further issues such as this, please do not hesitate to contact myself.

Kind regards

If your reply came from Steve Clark, he reads this forum so maybe email him a link to this thread?

brasillia17

Hi Coupon,

My response came from David Dunford email address but as it was written by Steve Clark, should I pursue this?

I sent the email appeal on the 15th of Jan to CEL and have received no response, I know in the email it gives 21 days for them to respond but is it usual for them not to have responded by now?

Getting worried:eek::eek:

Quentin

What are you worried about?


(If it's because you had no reply yet to your appeal, then stop worrying and put it at the back of your mind - be more patient!)


Have you read #9? If so why are you coming on telling us you are "worried"?