Britannia Parking PCN Portswood Centre, Souhtampton

KeithP

JPG2808 wrote: »

Hi there

General query having received a Parking charge from Britannia elsewhere.....do the same rules apply as I lease a car through my company?

Cheers

Generally - no.

Please read the first post on the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread where right at the the bottom you will find a section devoted to lease/hire cars.

Please, no further response on this thread. Try ing to address two different issues for two different people can only lead to confusion.

Please start a new thread if you need further help.

Thanks.

LoneStarState

Thanks for your input as always CM. I've redone the response adding some more points and trimming some of the fluff from the response.

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter of Claim dated XX August 2018.

Your letter contains woefully insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide any copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

Given the severe lack of any document/evidence included with this “Letter of Claim”, I wholly deny any liability for the alleged debt at this stage.

It is important to note that due to the lack of information with this “Letter of Claim”, a subject access request (SAR) was submitted to your client on the XX September 2018 under relevant articles of the General Data Protection Regulation as enshrined in the Data Protection Act 2018. Due to the SAR in progress, I, as the data subject request you to cease and/or restrict data processing about myself as the data subject until the SAR process is completed. It would be prudent of you to remind your client of their need to comply with the GDPR when addressing the SAR I have raised with them on the date above.

As a solicitor’s firm, I would have assumed that you are fully aware of the currently issued Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims and the explicit requirements set out in that protocol. It is important that you and your client are aware that this protocol must be complied with.

As mentioned, your “Letter of Claim” lacks specificity, in direct breach of paragraphs 5.1 and 5.2 of the Pre-Action Protocol. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents/information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with the protocol and I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the PAP to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its obligation, and when costs come to be considered.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver of keeper
3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked and for how long.
5. Detailed breakdown of how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, including the breakdown of the £60 cost titled “Initial Legal Costs”.
6. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide me a copy of that contract.
7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
8. A copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the BPA Code of Practice section 7 including any clauses on entry and exit grace periods, and genuine customer clauses for the retail site.
9. A site plan showing where any signs are displayed.
10. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed).
11. Images of the signs as they would appear in total darkness showing prominence and legibility from distance.
12. Evidence of signage at the site having been granted advertisement consent by the Local Planning Authority.
13. Please provide details of ALL Parking Charge Notices (“PCN”) issued by your client for this alleged parking incident and subsequent action taken in respect of these PCNs. Your letter dated XX August 2018 states “… you have failed to make a payment or raise an appeal within 28 days from the date of the PCN….”. This is factually incorrect and has caused me distress and confusion, I seek clarity of the facts in this case.
14. Address of the following statement: “Our Client’s entitlement to the total Debt Recovery Costs referred to in the table above is expressed in the Terms and Conditions, which you accepted upon entering the site”. How did I allegedly accept those terms and in what role did I allegedly accept them?

On page 3 of your “Letter of Claim” to me and as given in point 14 above, you have referred to the £60 of the £160 “Balance” as “Total Debt Recovery Costs”. I refer you to a letter dated XX August 2018 as well as page 1 of your “Letter of Claim”, which refers to the £60 charge as “Our Client’s initial legal costs”. I am confused with your correspondence to me as they use contradictory terms. In addition to point 5 above, please clarify exactly what these charges are. I would like to refer you to CPR 27.14 which explicitly disallows you from claiming legal costs.

If your client does not provide me with the information requested above then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20); Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceeding, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligation and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it. It would be entirely premature (and a waste of costs/court time) to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15 (b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours Faithfully

Coupon-mad

I, as the data subject request you

That poor isolated verb - eeeek at the split infinitive! Should be:

As the data subject, I request you

LoneStarState

Made a couple more minor tweeks and grammar corrections and will be sending the end result off first class with proof of postage this weekend.

Also.....the message I sent back to SCC planning enforcement after their first email:

Hi YYYY

Thank you for the prompt response and clarification.

Unfortunately the response does raise further questions.

I've noted you say the "Local Planning Authority are not pursuing any complaints received in respect of the types of CCTV and signage which you refer to which are currently placed on land associated with private car parks...........These types of complaints are considered not expedient and I can confirm that officers will not look into this particular complaint."

The Southampton City Council Planning Enforcement Policy at https://www.southampton.gov.uk/modernGov/documents/s22909/Appendix%201.pdf categorically states that:

"5.1 The Planning Enforcement Service will:

• Investigate all alleged breaches of planning control which are reported in writing, by e-mail or by telephone, and where sufficient information is given to identify the site, i.e. an exact address and details of what harm (if any) is being caused as a result of the breach. Complainants should leave their details so we can keep them informed and check information with them. "

The council can only reserve the right not to investigate complaints made anonymously, which I have not done as all relevant personal details have been given, in addition to the specific details of the site in the initial email. I kindly request that an investigation is carried out as per the policy or alternatively, official documentation from the City Council that overrules/amends the above section of the planning enforcement policy to justify lack of investigation at all in certain cases. If this planning enforcement policy is up to date and in force, I kindly ask that it is complied with and that an investigation is appropriately scheduled when resources allow and that I am kept up to date.

The site itself I notified you of with a UPRN does not have any planning applications on the planning portal other than for a telephone kiosk. The car park itself managed by the organisation named in the first email, is displaying a large number of signs that fall under the classification of advertisements that require advertisement consent due to their size and the fact they are illuminated at night. Again, not having appropriate advertisement consent for these signs is a criminal offence under the Town and Country Planning (Control of Advertisements) (England) Regulations 2007. By not investigating this particular breach, the planning enforcement team would be enabling the proliferation of this criminal offence. I find it very difficult to believe that such an organisation operating car parks across the country is unaware of their obligations to the law with regards to their display of advertisements.

Thank you again for your time

Kind regards

XXXX XXXXXX

LoneStarState

And finally, their second underwhelming response. I'm slightly astounded they care this little when other councils take lack of consent for advertisements that require it relatively seriously.

Dear Mr XXXXXX

Thank you for taking the time to read the Council’s Enforcement Policy, as the Enforcement Supervisor I contributed to the creation of this policy so am fully conversant with the wording.

Where the section 5.1 states that the Planning Enforcement Service will investigate all alleged breaches, this does in actual fact mean that every complaint received is examined by an officer and a decision is made as to whether the matter would be taken on by the Enforcement Team based upon the information received etc. If a matter is pursued by the team a full investigation will take place and the complainant will be updated in due course. I can see how you have misinterpreted the opening line of the statement in this section of the policy, I apologise if it is not as clear as perhaps it should be but in all of the years the policy has been in existence I have not come across this part of the policy being questioned before and consider it to be acceptable.

I can see from your email that you are emphasizing on the word investigate as this word appears within the first line of the statement within the policy, I will seek to enquire about amending this particular word in the opening paragraph to the word examine to prevent any further misinterpretation.

I have previously advised you that this particular matter will not be pursued by the Enforcement Team and the reasons given previously have not changed. I fully appreciate your personal reasons as to why you wish to pursue the matter with the company operating from this particular site, however, the Local Planning Authority have already advised that it is not expedient to pursue this particular matter from a planning perspective and I advise that no further action will be taken on this occasion.

I consider this matter now closed.

Regards

YYYY YYYYYYYYY
Enforcement Supervisor
Southampton City Council

LoneStarState

A positive update I hope........

Sent off the response to the letter before claim on Saturday with proof of postage.

Receive email from landowner agent Monday stating they have cancelled the Parking charge notice (although kindly reminded we should be more mindful of the parking restrictions - we would have been if signs were obvious in the first place .)

I cannot understate that the landowner/landowner agent cancellation route should always be tried, preferably much earlier than I did to save yourself the hassle from these parasites. Particularly when you're a genuine customer with a large group of family (went for drinks and watched Southampton play Man Utd of all things).

I'll patiently wait for formal confirmation from Britannia themselves and then maybe start to believe it's finally over. Who knows what BW Legal will do. Maybe they'll carry on, which would be a huge mistake but something they have oddly done in the past. A small part of me did fancy the experience of a day in court.

Thanks again for all forum help and the newbies thread. Will probably stick around and help others. Reckon the Portswood Centre will continue to be a staple fixture of this forum for now.

Coupon-mad

I cannot understate that the landowner/landowner cancellation route should always be tried, preferably much earlier than I did to save yourself the hassle from these parasites.

Yes, always complain to the retailer first. ALWAYS! The complaint will be remembered and might just tip the balance when it comes to not renewing the contract later on.

Thanks again for all forum help and the newbies thread. Will probably stick around and help others.

Good, you are very welcome! We have quite a group of regulars now, some old hands and some newer, but all helping posters with decent advice.

el_patron

LoneStarState wrote: »

I cannot understate that the landowner/landowner agent cancellation route should always be tried, preferably much earlier than I did to save yourself the hassle from these parasites. Particularly when you're a genuine customer with a large group of family (went for drinks and watched Southampton play Man Utd of all things).

Hi

Hope you've had a good Christmas, and glad this all got sorted for you.

I'm in a similar situation to you at the same location. I "overstayed" by less than 15 mins and am now getting letters from BW Legal. I was just wondering with regards to the landowner route who did you contact? And what were the general points that your email contained?

Thanks

MistyZ

el-patron, I've just messaged you with the contact details. I'd have posted them here but I know from experience that the person you need to contact can be very helpful and didn't want to irritate them.
You need to start your own thread for further support.

Mahershalalhashbaz

I am currently receiving letters from BW Legal which say that they are advising Britannia to take me to court for overstaying my welcome at Portswood Car Park, so I am encouraged by the happy ending to this particular case.

Several months have passed since my car was recorded in that car park, and back then I did try to find out who owned the land of the car park. When I asked in the nearby shops, they told me how much they disliked the actions of the parking company as they felt it was driving away their customers. I was given the name of a large international property management company, but couldn't find who to contact.

If you are able to provide the information, I should be grateful.