Britannia Parking PCN Portswood Centre, Souhtampton

StephKat

Hi,


Replying to this post as it is less than a day active. I've just received the same parking charge notice as outlined above. Reading the outcome of the above appeal, do I have a leg to stand on appealing myself?


Thanks

KeithP

StephKat, please start your own thread.

Although your case may well be similar, offering advice to two different people about two separate incidents can only lead to confusion.

Please read the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread as well.

Please, no response here. Start a new thread if needed. Thanks.

LoneStarState

Small update with this.


Post POPLA we have had the ususal debt collector nonsense from DRP then Zenith (who made a very compassionate offer to reduce the charge down to £100) and now have been contacted by the ever disreputable BWLegal with debt claims and now suprisingly a letter before claim.


I'll post up a draft response to the LBC when done although I'm fairly confident given the well linked examples in the newbies thread it should be ok.


We're also currently in discussion with the management agent of the Portswood Centre to try and get this harassment stopped (in hindsight I will freely admit this avenue should have been pursued sooner).

LoneStarState

Oh, and also for amusement and wide eyed incredulity see below for Southampton City Council's attitude towards known breaches of planning control and lack of advertisement consent.


They initially didn't respond to my original email giving the specific details and I then had to send a second after remembering they never responded three months ago (while including the original email).


[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Dear Mr XXXXXX[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Thank you for your email.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Unfortunately I have been unable to locate the email sent by you on 18 May 2018 and this is the reason why you have not been contacted to date, I have no idea why I cannot locate this and can only assume that it may have been deleted in error. The Planning Enforcement Team receive several emails per day almost every day of the year.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]In respect of your specific complaint, unfortunately the Local Planning Authority are not pursuing any complaints received in respect of the types of cctv and signage which you refer to which are currently placed on land associated with private car parks. If the Local Planning Authority were to investigate a single site in connection with cctv and signage then all other similar sites within the city boundary would need to be investigated also. These types of complaints are considered not expedient and I can confirm that officers will not look into this particular complaint.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]If you consider that your family relatives are being harassed by a particular company then you must consider taking legal advice.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]I trust this clarifies the Councils position on this matter for you.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Regards[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif] [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]YYYY YYYYYYYYY[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Enforcement Supervisor[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif]Southampton City Council[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,serif][FONT=Arial,sans-serif][/FONT][/FONT]

Umkomaas

But lack of advertising consent for signs (forget planning permission for cameras - that's deflecting attention from the main issue) is a potential criminal offence. I'd write back and ask why the council is prepared to turn a blind eye to a potential criminal offence? Can they confirm that they fully understand the position in which they are placing themselves?

Do look up the law on advertising consent to make sure you have chapter and verse in order to compose your letter without providing any wriggle-room for the council in responding.

You could cc the letter to your councillor and your MP - make sure the letter to the council is suitably marked 'cc' - that will dissuade them from firing you a fob-off.

BearsintheTrees

Puts me off going to Portswood at all, so I may do the same as you and contact the Portswood management agent to complain

LoneStarState

Agreed BT

I haven't been back since and won't intend to. The site is clearly a honey trap with parking conditions that aren't appropriate for a shopping centre consisting of a lot of restuarants, bars and the like (where 2 hours parking is not enough

Also thanks UKM. Indeed I will not let it rest (especially for the advertisement consent). Not investigating the planning complaint made by me is in fact against their own planning enforcement policy which states they will investigate every complaint they receive after appropriately prioritising it.

It's also worrying that it seems to only be for private car parks they will not investigate. Why bother investigating any private land with planning breaches? They might as well remove planning enforcement from their name.

I have a feeling they're fobbing me off because I'm not actually resident in Southampton (I had to provide contact details as they reserve the right not to investigate at all if no details are provided) and that as a result they can just brush away my complaint. Will try to see if they play ball with my next email. If not, it will be time to forward to local politicians.

LoneStarState

See below for initial draft response to letter before claim. Feel it's acceptable, any glaring errors/omissions let me know. It's only been slightly adapted from examples linked in newbies. BW Legal have given a deadline of start of October:

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter of Claim dated XX August 2018.

Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence your client places reliance upon.

Your client must know that an updated Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims was issued on 01 October 2017. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, this updated protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction – Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c)) and the updated Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 5.1 and 5.2). Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents/information that the protocol now requires your client to provide. Your client must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order your client to comply with its pre-action obligation, and when costs come to be considered.

As solicitors you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable from 01 October 2017 and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and your client should likewise be aware of them). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceeding or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced “Letter of Claim” in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new protocol.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligation of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver of keeper
3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. What the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked and for how long.
5. Detailed breakdown of how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, including the breakdown of the £60 cost titled “Initial Legal Costs”.
6. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide me a copy of that contract.
7. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.
8. A copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the BPA Code of Practice section 7 including any clauses on entry and exit grace periods, and genuine customer clauses for the retail site.
9. A site plan showing where any signs are displayed.
10. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed).
11. Evidence of signage at the site having been granted advertisement consent by the Local Planning Authority.
12. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest, administrative or other charges added.
13. Please provide details of ALL Parking Charge Notices (“PCN”) issued by your client for this alleged parking incident and subsequent action taken in respect of these PCNs. Your letter dated 14 August 2018 states “… you have failed to make a payment or raise an appeal within 28 days from the date of the PCN….”. This is factually incorrect and has caused me distress and confusion, I seek clarity of the facts in this case.

In your recent correspondence to me you have referred to the £60 of the £160 “Balance” as “Total Debt Recovery Costs”, I refer you to a letter dated XX August 2018, addressed to myself which refers to the £60 charge as “…. Our Client’s initial legal costs….”. I am confused with your correspondence to me as they use contradictory terms, in addition to point 5 above, please clarify exactly what these charges are. I would like to refer you to CPR 27.14 which explicitly disallows you from claiming legal costs.

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20); Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceeding, pursuant to paragraphs 13, 15(b) and (c) and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until your client has complied with its obligation and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15 (b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours Faithfully

Coupon-mad

Why not just write a letter denying liability, and asking for a list of what you want to see in evidence? e.g. did they supply photos taken in the dark, with their POPLA evidence, or just daylight photos?

Add that this must be treated as a 'Subject Access Request' (SAR) and handled by the PPC's Data Protection Officer accordingly. IMHO, no template is needed when replying to a LBC, however, your last bit is still good.

JPG2808

Hi there

General query having received a Parking charge from Britannia elsewhere.....do the same rules apply as I lease a car through my company?

Cheers