How long will this property website go on saving l the homeowners

Windofchange

Cakeguts wrote: »

Please do and while you are at it could you please ask why there are no occupational health departments for people who have just left hospital after a stay in the mental health ward? Could you also please ask why the medication for schizophrenia and bi-polar is so old fashioned. I would also like to know the research behind ECT that shows that it works. The side effects for some of the bi-polar medication causes tremours could you please find out why we don't have better medication for these serious illnesses I would love to know the answer. The SSRIs that I take work for me but they don't work for a lot of other people. In the time I have been taking them chemotherapy medications have improved enormously but I don't see the same improvement in medication for mental illnesses. I also know that SSRIs do not work in the way that it was thought they would work.

You might be interested in the research into what the brains of taxi drivers looked like after they had learned the knowledge and also what they looked like after they had retired. I found that quite interesting.

I would also like to know why this research is wrong. https://inews.co.uk/news/brain-scans-can-detect-signs-depression-anxiety/

I suppose this research is wrong too? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16086233

This from the NHS about how it is thought ( they don't actually know) that SSRIs work https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/antidepressants/ This page also explains about TCAs.

I have taken Seroxat. The side effects were really really nasty. I was told to persevere with them even though I would wake up in the morning after sleeping with a neckache where the tremors had caused movement between my body and my head during the night. So don't tell me how wonderful the treatments are because I know how bad some of them can be.

I can't get better from depression by taking exercise or getting out more. I have to take medication. So don't tell me that exercise will cure my mental illness because I know it won't. Just as exercise won't cure a brain tumour.

I suppose that this would be acceptable in a cancer ward or on a maternity ward? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36806300

Aren't you interested in the views of patients using the NHS mental health services? It is a shame really because the police service have been on courses in how to talk to and care for mentally ill people. Shouldn't that be the job of the NHS though not the police?

Has it ever occured to you that Economic might be suffering from the poor quality of care provided by the NHS to people with a mental illness?

When you are having a little laugh at what I wrote could you also find out why parity of care is still not happening? https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/verdict/has-government-put-mental-health-equal-footing-physical-health

Ok. It would appear you also are suffering from mental health issues, and this really isn't the right forum for a discussion. I'm bowing out. I actually genuinely hope you both get the peace you need. You're right, the NHS has been failing on mental health, and this is why reports such as the one I linked to above were written. It might be worth reading so you can see the direction that we are heading?

The simple answer is, we don't have a one size fits all cure - we just don't understand the brain that well. This is why people can have all sorts of medications, therapies etc etc and not end up cured as it were. If it were an easy fix, then we would have fixed it. It unfortunately isn't.

I hope you get a solution to whatever it is you're facing.

westernpromise

One thing of which I would be fairly sure, a propos of this, is that if one looked into it there are probably as many or perhaps more charities lobbying for more money / other people's money to be spent on mental health issues than there are charities that spend donations on actually and proactively doing anything about it, or helping sufferers directly.

The chief exception to this general rule seems to be cancer charities, where there are outfits that provide actual nurses and others that fund research. MIND, the mental health charity, to its credit runs shops and at least some of its work goes on direct support of sufferers, and a link on its website takes you to a list of phone numbers people can call if they need someone to talk to right now.

Otherwise and in general a depressing number of UK charities seem to be more about creating sinecures, for hoity-toity middle-class liberal virtue-signallers who are far too grand to dirty their hands with trade, than they are about alleviating any problem. Such charities are essentially parasitical on their donors and on charities that actually do something but from whom donations are diverted by the Tarquin Guardian-Reader type of charidee.

Cakeguts

westernpromise wrote: »

One thing of which I would be fairly sure, a propos of this, is that if one looked into it there are probably as many or perhaps more charities lobbying for more money of other people's money to be spent on mental health issues than there are charities that spend donations on actually and proactively doing anything about it, or helping sufferers directly.

The chief exception to this general rule seems to be cancer charities, where there are outfits that provide actual nurses and others that fund research. MIND, the mental health charity, to its credit runs shops and at least some of its work goes on direct support of sufferers, and a link on its website takes you to a list of phone numbers people can call if they need someone to talk to right now.

Otherwise and in general a depressing number of UK charities seem to be more about creating sinecures, for hoity-toity middle-class liberal virtue-signallers who are far too grand to dirty their hands with trade, than they are about alleviating any problem. Such charities are essentially parasitical on their donors and on charities that actually do something but from whom donations are diverted by the Tarquin Guardian-Reader type of charidee.

You missed this one https://www.rethink.org/services-groups

Cakeguts

Windofchange wrote: »

Ok. It would appear you also are suffering from mental health issues, and this really isn't the right forum for a discussion. I'm bowing out. I actually genuinely hope you both get the peace you need. You're right, the NHS has been failing on mental health, and this is why reports such as the one I linked to above were written. It might be worth reading so you can see the direction that we are heading?

The simple answer is, we don't have a one size fits all cure - we just don't understand the brain that well. This is why people can have all sorts of medications, therapies etc etc and not end up cured as it were. If it were an easy fix, then we would have fixed it. It unfortunately isn't.

I hope you get a solution to whatever it is you're facing.

I know it isn't an easy fix. What I want to point out is that I am actually discharged from the mental health system in my area and my medication is controlled by me and my GP. However what I have written is the view of a patient receiving treatment from the NHS. Wouldn't you think that that would be valuable information?

The view from the perspective of a mental health patient is that the NHS spends more money on treatments, more money on research and more money on patient care on life threatening physical illnesses like cancer than it does on life threatening mental illnesses. Isn't the NHS interested in the views of its patients on its care?

westernpromise

Cakeguts wrote: »

Isn't the NHS interested in the views of its patients on its care?

No. It's not. It's unaccountable and untouchable. As an institution, what its customers think is of literally no account, in the same way that the BBC couldn't care less what licence payers think because in each case 1/ nobody represents them en bloc and 2/ even if anyone did, there'd still be no risk of either being defunded because 3/ both are forcibly funded.

If you don't like the BBC you can't buy Sky instead; you still have to pay for the BBC. NHS same thing.

This is not to say that all of them are Mr. Bumble the Beadle. It's just that many are because there are no comebacks for letting old people starve to death on trolleys or letting patients die in hospital of a disease they didn't have when they went in.

Labour effectively returned the NHS to the workhouse operating model that immediately preceded it, whereby whatever you get you should be deeply grateful. Could be good, could be bad, but it's at the staff's discretion.

If you read Orwell's account of his experiences in a French workhouse just under 100 years ago, it's all eerily familiar:

The clerks put me through the usual third-degree at the reception desk, and indeed I was kept answering questions for some twenty minutes before they would let me in.... the ward ...was a long, rather low, ill-lit room, full of murmuring voices and with three rows of beds surprisingly close together....in general you got very little treatment at all, either good or bad, unless you were ill in some interesting and instructive way [cf. the lack of NHS interest in MH issues]. At five in the morning the nurses came round, woke the patients and took their temperatures, but did not wash them. If you were well enough you washed yourself, otherwise you depended on the kindness of some walking patient...the tall, solemn, black-bearded doctor made his rounds, with an INTERNE and a troop of students following at his heels, but there were about sixty of us in the ward and it was evident that he had other wards to attend to as well. There were many beds past which he walked day after day, sometimes followed by imploring cries. On the other hand if you had some disease with which the students wanted to familiarize themselves you got plenty of attention of a kind.

Some things don't change. Some on the other hand do:

No doubt English nurses are dumb enough, they may tell fortunes with tea-leaves, wear Union Jack badges and keep photographs of the Queen on their mantelpieces, but at least they don't let you lie unwashed and constipated on an unmade bed, out of sheer laziness.

http://www.george-orwell.org/How_The_Poor_Die/0.html

Nobody would write Orwell's last-quoted sentence today.

economic

I thought a tv license was optional? If you don't watch TV or stream TV then you don't have to pay for a license.

Windofchange

Cakeguts wrote: »

I know it isn't an easy fix. What I want to point out is that I am actually discharged from the mental health system in my area and my medication is controlled by me and my GP. However what I have written is the view of a patient receiving treatment from the NHS. Wouldn't you think that that would be valuable information?

Yes, absolutely, the views of service users are valuable. The point here however is that up until a couple of posts ago, we didn't know you were a service user. This relates to my point that there are better places on the web to have a sensitive discussion about these issues. Posters within a sub-forum debating house prices and the economy are not likely to assume a baseline stance that multiple people within it suffer from serious mental health issues.

Cakeguts wrote: »

The view from the perspective of a mental health patient is that the NHS spends more money on treatments, more money on research and more money on patient care on life threatening physical illnesses like cancer than it does on life threatening mental illnesses. Isn't the NHS interested in the views of its patients on its care?

I would agree there is an element of truth to this, and mental health has certainly come under the spot light more over the past year or two, so that suggests a change is taking place, albeit perhaps slowly. I think the frustration for many working within the organisation is that we try our hardest day in day out to make the most of the very limited resources, but also bear the brunt of a lot of the anger when things go wrong, whether justified or not. It's perhaps why I am overly defensive of the NHS on here and elsewhere, because genuinely we are trying, but it can be like banging your head against a wall. With the exception of a few bad eggs, we all do our best for patients, but then read stories about how we're failing and aren't fit for purpose. It's like you get a literal kicking at work (I was punched last week), and then get another kicking outside.

So, as before, good luck in dealing with your issues whatever they may be, and I hope you find peace.

Cakeguts

Windofchange wrote: »

Yes, absolutely, the views of service users are valuable. The point here however is that up until a couple of posts ago, we didn't know you were a service user. This relates to my point that there are better places on the web to have a sensitive discussion about these issues. Posters within a sub-forum debating house prices and the economy are not likely to assume a baseline stance that multiple people within it suffer from serious mental health issues.



I would agree there is an element of truth to this, and mental health has certainly come under the spot light more over the past year or two, so that suggests a change is taking place, albeit perhaps slowly. I think the frustration for many working within the organisation is that we try our hardest day in day out to make the most of the very limited resources, but also bear the brunt of a lot of the anger when things go wrong, whether justified or not. It's perhaps why I am overly defensive of the NHS on here and elsewhere, because genuinely we are trying, but it can be like banging your head against a wall. With the exception of a few bad eggs, we all do our best for patients, but then read stories about how we're failing and aren't fit for purpose. It's like you get a literal kicking at work (I was punched last week), and then get another kicking outside.

So, as before, good luck in dealing with your issues whatever they may be, and I hope you find peace.

In which case will you please stop offering suggestions like taking more exercise to someone you don't know. You are not their doctor.

You got a kicking. You know it is unpleasant but you were quite happy to give a "verbal kicking" to someone you don't know but who could have self esteem issues.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If that opinion is like mine in that the treatment of people with mental illness by the NHS is basically appalling then they are entitled to that opinion. It is probably based on experience I know mine is.

Sorry for taking over this thread. I am off now to do some music arranging.

economic

Cakeguts wrote: »

In which case will you please stop offering suggestions like taking more exercise to someone you don't know. You are not their doctor.

You got a kicking. You know it is unpleasant but you were quite happy to give a "verbal kicking" to someone you don't know but who could have self esteem issues.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If that opinion is like mine in that the treatment of people with mental illness by the NHS is basically appalling then they are entitled to that opinion. It is probably based on experience I know mine is.

Sorry for taking over this thread. I am off now to do some music arranging.

Just take a look at post #6. Clearly shows BagofWind likes to joke about it as well. Take nothing he says seriously. Based on my experience with the NHS, its no surprise they hire people like him.

Jack_Johnson_the_acorn

economic wrote: »

Just take a look at post #6. Clearly shows BagofWind likes to joke about it as well. Take nothing he says seriously. Based on my experience with the NHS, its no surprise they hire people like him.

You're a fruit mate. This subject is "How long will this property website go on saving I the homeowners.

Go and post somewhere that cares about your medical problems. As soon as I see your name I just know the thread is going way off topic....