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Help on stopping in yellow box fine??

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  • Might as well quote the relevant section of the HWC fully:
    174
    Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (download ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
    Law TSRGD regs 10(1) & 29(2)
    Where the OP may have a problem is that if they had entered the box when their exit was not clear, they may still have committed a yellow box offence by anticipating the exit clearing. It is not sufficient just to be turning right, but they must also be able to clear the junction before entering the box.
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Might as well quote the relevant section of the HWC fully:

    Where the OP may have a problem is that if they had entered the box when their exit was not clear, they may still have committed a yellow box offence by anticipating the exit clearing. It is not sufficient just to be turning right, but they must also be able to clear the junction before entering the box.

    If that was the case then the word 'wait' wouldn't be included in the third line of the section of the highway code you are quoting.
  • IamNotAllowedToUseMyName
    IamNotAllowedToUseMyName Posts: 1,528 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 30 December 2017 at 7:38PM
    Johno100 wrote: »
    If that was the case then the word 'wait' wouldn't be included in the third line of the section of the highway code you are quoting.
    What is it you are allowed to wait for? It is not for the exit to clear, there is an explicit list of the only things you are allowed to wait for. But it wasn't well worded on my part, the point being that you have to enter the box and clear it, only pausing for oncoming traffic.

    The whole point of yellow box junctions (which have baffled motorists since the day they were introduced) is to try and get people to do what they are supposed to do anyway, which is to keep the junction clear. If you were allowed to queue in the box, then the junction would block if the traffic did not move forward.

    Really, any junction should be handled the same. So for example, if you can see that in turning right at traffic lights, you can see that your exit is blocked, you shouldn't move forward into the junction, regardless of whether there is a yellow box there. If that means you miss your turn - tough.
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    What is it you are allowed to wait for? It is not for the exit to clear, there is an explicit list of the only things you are allowed to wait for. But it wasn't well worded on my part, the point being that you have to enter the box and clear it, only pausing for oncoming traffic.

    The whole point of yellow box junctions (which have baffled motorists since the day they were introduced) is to try and get people to do what they are supposed to do anyway, which is to keep the junction clear. If you were allowed to queue in the box, then the junction would block if the traffic did not move forward.

    Try re-reading the next section of what you quoted.
    However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.
    Really, any junction should be handled the same. So for example, if you can see that in turning right at traffic lights, you can see that your exit is blocked, you shouldn't move forward into the junction, regardless of whether there is a yellow box there. If that means you miss your turn - tough.

    Best of luck doing that mate.:rotfl:
  • Queuing in the box waiting for gap in oncoming traffic but your exit is clear is one thing.
    Queuing in the box waiting for gap in oncoming traffic but your exit is blocked by traffic is another.
    The first scenario is acceptable the second is not because it causes the junction to be blocked when the lights change - nowhere for the queuing traffic to go.
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259 Forumite
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    Lizabeth21 wrote: »
    Queuing in the box waiting for gap in oncoming traffic but your exit is clear is one thing.
    Queuing in the box waiting for gap in oncoming traffic but your exit is blocked by traffic is another.
    The first scenario is acceptable the second is not because it causes the junction to be blocked when the lights change - nowhere for the queuing traffic to go.

    And everyone can potentially face that dilemma whenever they turn right at traffic lights, regardless of whether there is a yellow box or not. It doesn't however make it a yellow box offence because you are turning right.
  • Johno100 wrote: »
    And everyone can potentially face that dilemma whenever they turn right at traffic lights, regardless of whether there is a yellow box or not. It doesn't however make it a yellow box offence because you are turning right.

    Agreed. Shouldn’t be a need for yellow boxes but some people/drivers.........
  • Johno100 wrote: »
    Best of luck doing that mate.:rotfl:
    So you are at a junction where you can see you can't turn right because the traffic is not moving and you'd still move forward stopping the other direction of traffic being able to cross the junction on the off chance it might clear? You'll be one of the drivers they introduced the yellow box to deal with and presumably you sit there gesticulating at the other angry drivers you've blocked saying "Not my fault mate, nowhere to go?"
  • Wig
    Wig Posts: 14,139 Forumite
    edited 31 December 2017 at 1:15AM
    Johno100 wrote: »
    If that was the case then the word 'wait' wouldn't be included in the third line of the section of the highway code you are quoting.


    Johno100 wrote: »
    And everyone can potentially face that dilemma whenever they turn right at traffic lights, regardless of whether there is a yellow box or not. It doesn't however make it a yellow box offence because you are turning right.

    If you are saying that waiting in a yellow box to turn right, when the exit is not clear is not an offence, I think you are wrong.

    "Turning right" is not a "get out of jail free card"

    The exit must be clear or it is an offence

    "You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear."

    "you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right." .... in other words your exit MUST be clear while you are waiting...so when the lights change the oncoming traffic stops any waiting cars in front of you and you, are able to clear the yellow box. If you get stuck in the box you have committed an offence.
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    So you are at a junction where you can see you can't turn right because the traffic is not moving and you'd still move forward stopping the other direction of traffic being able to cross the junction on the off chance it might clear? You'll be one of the drivers they introduced the yellow box to deal with and presumably you sit there gesticulating at the other angry drivers you've blocked saying "Not my fault mate, nowhere to go?"

    No, because you wouldn't, even if able, cross the path of traffic coming in the opposite direction unless your exit it is clear, as you might cause such a blockage you describe. But that doesn't mean you'd wait back at the stop line as you've suggested, rather you'd position yourself within the box but not obstructing traffic coming the other way.

    Obviously we are think about the opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to the size and complexity of such junctions.
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