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2025 - the US of E
Comments
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Brexit is a calamity for eurosceptics because it was means to be the body blow that set off the collapse of the EU.
The first thing that was meant to happen was that smaller EU countries would start demanding their own "freedom" referendums. Then the heads of state of the EU 27 were meant to shoulder the EU governance out of the way and negotiate with Britain directly for trade deals. Then they were meant to beg us not to withdraw our, somewhat faded, military might.
None of this has happened, or will. European nations understand they will take some form of trade hit on the UK's exit, and are prepared to do so to ensure the integrity of the rest of the bloc. There will be a European army and it will also dawn on the Daily Mail that Europe can build aircraft carriers too, an actually afford to put planes on them.
Speeding up the move to a federal superstate is now a given to react to the Brexit crisis. The EU could otherwise have stayed as a loosish collaboration of nations with the UK having a veto over real cesession of authority.
Now we are on the outside and we have no say, no influence, no veto and no clue what we are going to do after 2019 when we are on the periphery of what will to all intents and purposes be the next superpower.
Great work Brexiteers. You really outdid yourself this time.0 -
Now we are on the outside and we have no say, no influence, no veto and no clue what we are going to do after 2019 when we are on the periphery of what will to all intents and purposes be the next superpower.
Oh dear. We could have been part of the next USA. Or the next Russia. Or the next China. Instead we're stuck being Britain. With good food, good beer, no secret police knocking on the door, no ethnic minority youths routinely executed in the middle of the street. What a shame.
As per Orwell, power is the ability to inflict suffering, and to be a superpower means nothing but the ability to inflict lots of it.
A USE federal state would give power not just to the sensible statesmanlike Merkels and Macrons that Remainers like to imagine, but also the extremist politicians that flourish in Poland and Hungary. How long until the USE had its first Trump?0 -
Malthusian wrote: »Oh dear. We could have been part of the next USA. Or the next Russia. Or the next China. Instead we're stuck being Britain. With good food, good beer, no secret police knocking on the door, no ethnic minority youths routinely executed in the middle of the street. What a shame.
As per Orwell, power is the ability to inflict suffering, and to be a superpower means nothing but the ability to inflict lots of it.
A USE federal state would give power not just to the sensible statesmanlike Merkels and Macrons that Remainers like to imagine, but also the extremist politicians that flourish in Poland and Hungary. How long until the USE had its first Trump?
What a joke. Europe is to the left of the UK. If I were you I would be more worried about what's happening here. With our hand holding Trump appeasing PM desperately trying to find a new US war to sign us up to to get a pat on the head.
The US president has a lot more say in what happens in London than he does in Berlin or Paris.0 -
Well OK, but you probably didn't expect the referendum vote either
Juncker did stand up the day after Article 50 was invoked and state that the ever closer union is their plan and what the intentions were, it would be quite hard not to follow that through
Juncker is quite entitled to his views IMO.
Just as we were entitled to vote to leave.
Its just change. Europe has been through so many changes over the centuries. I'm sure we can endure the current stuff.
I Don't think we would have been in the core tier of the future EU without being in the Euro. It is possible to be marginalised even when in the club, just ask Greece!0 -
Juncker is quite entitled to his views IMO.
Just as we were entitled to vote to leave.
Its just change. Europe has been through so many changes over the centuries. I'm sure we can endure the current stuff.
I Don't think we would have been in the core tier of the future EU without being in the Euro. It is possible to be marginalised even when in the club, just ask Greece!
Are the millions of people who didn't vote Leave entitled to have their views heard too?
Freedom of expression seems to be a very selective church with Brexiteers.0 -
Are the millions of people who didn't vote Leave entitled to have their views heard too?
Freedom of expression seems to be a very selective church with Brexiteers.
The remain team could have had the vote won with just a few modest concessions from juncker et al. Its not my fault you messed up.0 -
mayonnaise wrote: »No, I'm not behind the USE idea. As there's absolutely no chance of it happening, there's nothing to get behind anyway.
As for the Euro, we were not in the Euro, there was no chance of us ever willingly adopting the Euro and nobody was ever going to force us into the Euro.
Again a non-story designed only to scaremonger the gullible. And it worked.
I rest my case.Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear0 -
What a joke. Europe is to the left of the UK.
Which is precisely what makes it such a terrific breeding ground for the far-right.
Left wing governments breed waste and corruption. Waste and corruption makes people angry. If you see the government doling out largesse but do not benefit yourself, you may conclude that the state is not working for you and your best chance is to seize control. If you are one of the 20% youth unemployed in Spain or France, with no hope of a government job and a gold-plated pension, far-right extremism is an increasingly attractive option.
When was the last time the far right came second in a major UK election, as they did in France when that nice M. Macron gained power?
Alternative fuer Deutschland has 92 seats in the Bundestag (out of 709, 13%). How many seats does the BNP / British First have in Parliament?
I do worry more about what's happening here, but that's because the burgeoning popularity of the far-right in France and Germany and Poland is, thankfully, not my problem.
And never will be, thanks to Brexiteers. In the UK the far-right have no power, because we have a first-past-the-post system, and nobody votes for them. In Europe the far-right are given power, because they have proportional representation, and people do vote for them. Remainers want European governments to have power over the UK, which by extension means they want far-right parties who sit in those governments to have power over the UK. Even though they claim to be in favour of free trade and minority rights. It is an enduring mystery.0 -
'The United States of Europe' and other phrases such as 'European Superstate' are just meaningless, fatuous phrases created by people who dont want others to understand the actual ramifications of leaving the EU.
They prefer these 'scary' slogans while simultaneously labelling anyone who says anything negative about Brexit as promoting 'Project Fear'....0 -
'The United States of Europe' and other phrases such as 'European Superstate' are just meaningless, fatuous phrases created by people who dont want others to understand the actual ramifications of leaving the EU.
They prefer these 'scary' slogans while simultaneously labelling anyone who says anything negative about Brexit as promoting 'Project Fear'....
Not quite. The United States of Europe is proposed, among others, by Martin Schulz, leader of Germany's SPD, currently in talks with Angela Merkel over a further coalition deal. He wants a USE by 2025, and for those countries not wishing to sign up to be expelled from the european union.
https://www.ft.com/content/ec2a8982-db4a-11e7-a039-c64b1c09b4820
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