2025 - the US of E

Carl31

If what we are hearing about there being an in or out decision on the United states of Europes thing in 7 years, is the whole Brexit thing a big waste of time? Will there another referendum at that point for another in or out? and how will the Brexit negotiations affect that?

If thats the way the EU want to go, then I cant see the Brexit negotiations doing us much in the way of favours for the lead up to this. Is the Euro and a tighter relationship in the EU what the remain camp wanted? or did they just want things the way they were before? as either way, thats not whats going to be happening by the looks of things

Or is it a case of out now, as we will be in 7 years anyway? the US of E thing wasnt announced until Article 50 was invoked anyway

Enterprise_1701C

It wasn't announced, but it was the intention from the start of the common market, just that countries that joined were told to keep it quiet from the populace to avoid anyone noticing until it was too late to get out.

Quite frankly, it is basically Germany doing by stealth what they could not do by waging war.

A lot of countries outside of ourselves are unhappy about this and are being railroaded into it, the Eastern European bloc are unhappy because they do not want to be ruled by the eu in that way.

I suspect that the eu will start coming apart at the seems shortly.

This is part of the reason why a lot of people voted out.

Carl31

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

This is part of the reason why a lot of people voted out.

I dont think many people knew about it at the time of the referendum?

mayonnaise

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I suspect that the eu will start coming apart at the seems shortly.

Yup, anytime now. :rotfl:

The EU's utterly dismal economic performance compared to the UK will probably hasten the process.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eurozone-economic-expansion-growth-third-quarter-2017-uk-weakness-eu-q3-gdp-a8096996.html

peachyprice

Carl31 wrote: »

I dont think many people knew about it at the time of the referendum?

I think it was very obvious at the time of the referendum that this was the way the EU was heading. What did people think 'Ever closer Union' meant? I was told on here at the time that I was being ridiculous that the US of E was the ultimate aim. No so ridiculous after all.

Graham_Devon

Germany will always do what suits Germany. That's no bad thing, I wish we followed suit in many ways.

The EU hasn't got long left. Germany is no longer a net beneficiary, so it really isn't working for them and never can now. There has to be a United States of Europe for it to work - and I personally don't ever see that becoming reality.

As soon as Germany is fed up with it, the EU in it's current form and likely the currency will be dismantled. Could take a couple of decades, but then everything does. I sure don't want to be sitting on that bus as it crashes though, so hopefully we can be properly out and be the trend setter, rather than the passenger licking the windows on the bus.

peachyprice

mayonnaise wrote: »

Yup, anytime now. :rotfl:

The EU's utterly dismal economic performance compared to the UK will probably hasten the process.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eurozone-economic-expansion-growth-third-quarter-2017-uk-weakness-eu-q3-gdp-a8096996.html

The EU is about more than just economy. But that's the problem with the EU, they only consider the economy not the effect on the societies being eroded.

Carl31

peachyprice wrote: »

I think it was very obvious at the time of the referendum that this was the way the EU was heading. What did people think 'Ever closer Union' meant? I was told on here at the time that I was being ridiculous that the US of E was the ultimate aim. No so ridiculous after all.

is that what the remain vote were actually going for? I assumed they wanted to keep things as they were already

Carl31

mayonnaise wrote: »

Yup, anytime now. :rotfl:

The EU's utterly dismal economic performance compared to the UK will probably hasten the process.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eurozone-economic-expansion-growth-third-quarter-2017-uk-weakness-eu-q3-gdp-a8096996.html

are you behind the Us of E idea? taking on the Euro etc..?

peachyprice

Carl31 wrote: »

is that what the remain vote were actually going for? I assumed they wanted to keep things as they were already

I have no idea. Perhaps they were putting their fingers in their ears and saying la la la, thinking if they didn't hear it it wouldn't happen?

The only responses I have seen to the suggestion have been: 'don't be silly it's not going to happen' or 'it won't happen because we will veto it', I have never seen any acknowledgement that it is going to happen and we would have to make the choice to roll over and accept it or say goodbye.

There is this overwhelming belief that we alone would have the power to stop it by a mere veto. Quite ironic from people who think we're too weak a nation to make a success of going it alone, don't you think?

westernpromise

Carl31 wrote: »

is that what the remain vote were actually going for? I assumed they wanted to keep things as they were already

I think that's what we were meant to believe, but I didn't buy it. My question was always "Remain in what?" - because we have no idea what we are remaining in. An EEC of 7, an EC of 12, an EU of 27, a USE of how many? Why will it not eventually include Morocco and Algeria? The EU has never regarded any expansion as bad and the left objects to the prominence in NATO of the USA and would like NATO disbanded.

I should add that the Leave case was equally !!!!!! and consequently I abstained. I do think though that any move towards USE will retrospectively make Leave look like a farsighted decision. It will be impossible to leave the EU by then, and all previous German attempts at unifying Europe politically have ended badly for everyone involved, so why would one want to be?