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Paying in Old Pound Coins
Comments
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Legal tender isn't really relevant in these scenarios; 2p coins are only legal tender up to a 20p worth so you think people shouldn't give more than 20p worth of 2p's to charity?
That's a ridiculous straw man argument. I said nothing about whether people should or shouldn't give more than 20p in 2p coins to charities. I was talking about the status of the old pound coins as coinage in circulation. There are costs involved in transacting in cash and off-loading these costs to charities is unreasonable.
Legal tender is relevant. 2p coins are legal tender in limited amounts. Old pound coins are not legal tender in any amount. New pound coins are legal tender in any amount.0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »No, that doesn't make them worth one pound. The clearing banks are continuing to accept them as a good will gesture to their customers. They are not legal tender, so they could refuse to take them if they chose. Try settling a debt with them and you would find that they may well be refused because they are no longer legal tender.
Your argument is pointless because you can still get one pound for them, therefore that is what they are worth. But if you have that much of an issue with them feel free to give however many you have to me and I'll exchange them for money that I can then go and spend.0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »That's a ridiculous straw man argument. I said nothing about whether people should or shouldn't give more than 20p in 2p coins to charities. I was talking about the status of the old pound coins as coinage in circulation. There are costs involved in transacting in cash and off-loading these costs to charities is unreasonable.
Legal tender is relevant. 2p coins are legal tender in limited amounts. Old pound coins are not legal tender in any amount. New pound coins are legal tender in any amount.
My example of the 2p coins was to explain how legal tender isn't relevant in this context.
If you think coins/notes which are not legal tender shouldn't be given to charities then no charity in Scotland would ever receive and money (there is no legal tender in Scotland).ValiantSon wrote: »No, that doesn't make them worth one pound. The clearing banks are continuing to accept them as a good will gesture to their customers. They are not legal tender, so they could refuse to take them if they chose. Try settling a debt with them and you would find that they may well be refused because they are no longer legal tender.
You need to read up on what legal tender means as it has a very narrow definition which doesn't apply to the majority of transactions.
Banks can refuse to accept legal tender if they wish they have no legal obligation to accept any money (unless you are settling debts).0 -
Your argument is pointless because you can still get one pound for them, therefore that is what they are worth. But if you have that much of an issue with them feel free to give however many you have to me and I'll exchange them for money that I can then go and spend.
No, my argument isn't pointless, it is factually correct and yours isn't. Facts matter. You can exchange them for one pound in a bank due to the bank's good will, but they do not have a face value of one pound.
I don't have any because I did the sensible thing and got rid of them all before they were withdrawn.
You'll also notice that I haven't denied that banks are still accepting them, but only out of good will.0 -
You need to read up on what legal tender means as it has a very narrow definition which doesn't apply to the majority of transactions.
Banks can refuse to accept legal tender if they wish they have no legal obligation to accept any money (unless you are settling debts).
How incredibly arrogant of you to assume that I don't know what legal tender is! If you actually read my posts you will see that I have used the term precisely by referring to the settlement of a debt.
I never said that banks have to accept them because they are legal tender. I said that they don't have to accept them (or any other coins). The requirement on the banks to accept them stems from their own terms and conditions, which are related to the notes and coinage currently in circulation. Old pound coins are not currently in circulation and their acceptance of them, therefore, is an act of good will.
I never said that charities should only accept legal tender, so once again you are presenting a straw man argument.0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »No, my argument isn't pointless, it is factually correct and yours isn't. Facts matter. You can exchange them for one pound in a bank due to the bank's good will, but they do not have a face value of one pound.
I don't have any because I did the sensible thing and got rid of them all before they were withdrawn.
You'll also notice that I haven't denied that banks are still accepting them, but only out of good will.
You can make your argument until you are blue in the face but the real world fact is that while they can still be exchanged they are in fact worth one pound.
I'm out now anyway as I exchanged the last of mine some months ago when I found it in the pocket of a pair of trousers I hadn't worn for a long time. Feel free to carry on ranting to yourself.0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »How incredibly arrogant of you to assume that I don't know what legal tender is! If you actually read my posts you will see that I have used the term precisely by referring to the settlement of a debt.
I never said that banks have to accept them because they are legal tender. I said that they don't have to accept them (or any other coins). The requirement on the banks to accept them stems from their own terms and conditions, which are related to the notes and coinage currently in circulation. Old pound coins are not currently in circulation and their acceptance of them, therefore, is an act of good will.
I never said that charities should only accept legal tender, so once again you are presenting a straw man argument.
You seem to be missing the points i am making. Legal tender is not relevant to a discussion on whether or not you should donate certain coins to charity.
A bank does not have to accept any coin/note whether it is legal tender or not. Accepting payment even in legal tender notes could be considered a good will gesture. Some banks (such as Monzo) only accept payments in electronic form.
A charity does not have to accept legal tender and can choose to accept donations only in apples if they wanted.
A coin being legal tender or not means nothing in a discussion of whether not you should donate it to charity. Also a value of a coin is not determined by whether or not it is legal tender. The value is based on what value it is accepted as. So if a bank will give you £1 for the coin then it's difficult to argue it's worth less than a £1.
If i had a roman coin that collectors would give me £500 for it on average would you declare it not worth anything as it's not legal tender?.
Also just because you don't understand an argument doesn't make it a "straw man argument".0 -
You can make your argument until you are blue in the face but the real world fact is that while they can still be exchanged they are in fact worth one pound.
No, you are just wrong about this, as I have explained. You don't seem to understand what a fact is.I'm out now anyway as I exchanged the last of mine some months ago when I found it in the pocket of a pair of trousers I hadn't worn for a long time. Feel free to carry on ranting to yourself.
How am I ranting? I have calmly explained the point to you, but you refuse to accept it. That isn't ranting, but your underlining of the word "fact" on two occasions (even when the objective fact is that old pound coins do not have a face value of one pound) does rather suggest that you are getting close to ranting.0 -
From the Royal Mint website:
Clearly someone needs to read up on what legal tender means.
Oh the irony ..........
Well technically i don't need to read up on what legal tender means i need to read up on what coins are considering legal tender
. That's what i get for not checking before i posted it must only be banknotes that are not legal tender in scotland!. 0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »How am I ranting? I have calmly explained the point to you, but you refuse to accept it. That isn't ranting, but your underlining of the word "fact" on two occasions (even when the objective fact is that old pound coins do not have a face value of one pound) does rather suggest that you are getting close to ranting.
That's a good straw man argument you have there; agrinnall never said they have a "face value" of £1 he said they are worth £1 because that's what you can sell them for.
So if you had 100 old £1 coins and i offered to buy them of you for £10 would you accept it? If not how much would you expect to get for them considering you say they aren't worth £1 each.0
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