Neighbours seeking planning for extension with new party wall

Doozergirl

loveka wrote: »

Hello. Having just been through hell on earth with the same thing, I thought I would offer my advice.

The footings are allowed to encroach on the other side, as long as a party wall agreement is in place. They are allowed to build from the other side, again with an agreement in place. This means they can destroy the garden on the other side. They would be required to reinstate the garden exactly as it was afterwards. What usually happens is that they would lodge the money in an account before the work starts.

You are entitled to appoint your own party wall surveyor who looks after your interests. They pay for this surveyor.

If they start work without a party wall agreement then you have to seek an injunction to stop the work.

In my case, they started without an award. While I was away they dug up my garden. I now have a huge wall where once there was a fence covered in beautiful roses and clematis. I can't replant near the wall as anything I grow can't be attached to the wall itself. So I would have to put a fence in front of the wall, thus losing a few inches of garden.

I was too late to get an injunction. My solicitor said it would cost up to £3 k to get one anyway. My neighbours view was that he had done everything the act allows, but just without the expense of an award.

I am now faced with going to court to get the money for the garden. The stress has nearly killed me. Do I want to go through legal proceedings, having the stress carry on? Well, I want him to pay what he owes me, but many would say to let it go.

I am trying to move. I thought I knew what hate meant, but I really didn't until I met this man I now have to live next door to.

This is sad.

In a way he is right, but to not even reimburse you for plants is really wrong. I suspect your own legal costs would outweigh the cost of plants.

There doesn’t have to be a formal Party Wall Award in place for work to go ahead if neighbours are agreeable. It does benefit all parties to speak to each other.

If we want to protect our own land, we must not rely on a temporary party fence crossing the boundary or place plants against a fence owned by a neighbour. We are all better off having our own fences on our own side of the boundary if we want to grow plants against them. Or a proper party wall astride the boundary.

In the case of a fence, it makes it a bit difficult for a builder to protect the neighbour’s fence entirely, but at least some effort can be made. If it’s a party fence coming down then it’s always going to be devasting to the neighbouring garden.

In your case in point, if you’d have had a new party wall astride the boundary, you’d still be able to grow on an attractive wall and maybe benefit from the thermal properties of growing fruit etc against a wall and he would benefit from a slightly larger extension. As it is, you’ll have to erect a fence to grow against, which could be hard if the footings of the wall are on your land.

Nadeshkarine

Sorry am new to the forums and finding it hard to multiquote but thanks for the additional inputs.

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

But if these particular current owners of this house aren't ever going to want an extension themselves personally = they aren't likely to care if some future owner might want an extension.

What they will care about is the "here and now" - of mucking up their flowerbeds and putting them through hassle that won't give them personally any benefit.

That was basically the gut reaction - whilst yes it can make sense to build over the boundary, it's only if both sides do have an intention to extend. We can't know what future owners want, and they don't want to make calls about the current house based on some hypothetical future, rather what they currently want.

Doozergirl wrote: »

Hang on. I’ve stopped reading here. Just because someone tells you something on a forum, it doesn’t mean it’s true. Saying ‘that’s what I wanted to hear’ does not make it fact, nor is an uninformed emotional response the right one.

Knowledge on this board of the Party Wall Act is weak. I am certainly no expert but I do at least have some direct experience of it.

A new party wall is allowed. They can ‘encroach’, they are not being cheeky if it is specifically a party wall, built astride the boundary.

<snip>
They can speak to a party wall surveyor. Not an internet forum about house buying, which has absolutely nothing to do with the Party Wall Act.

A new party wall would encroach no more than the average fence post.

Think my response might have been misconstrued, to be clear, I said "that's what I was hoping to confirm" - i.e. I wanted to confirm what their rights are/are not in regards to what neighbours can build on their land, and this seemed to be a clear cut answer. I've observed people on this board to be pretty clued up so hoped they could help.
They do now have a party wall surveyor coming later this week, but were worried when I saw them about the impact to the garden. I hoped I could give some reassurance ahead of that.

loveka wrote: »

Hello. Having just been through hell on earth with the same thing, I thought I would offer my advice.

The footings are allowed to encroach on the other side, as long as a party wall agreement is in place. They are allowed to build from the other side, again with an agreement in place. This means they can destroy the garden on the other side. They would be required to reinstate the garden exactly as it was afterwards. What usually happens is that they would lodge the money in an account before the work starts.

You are entitled to appoint your own party wall surveyor who looks after your interests. They pay for this surveyor.

If they start work without a party wall agreement then you have to seek an injunction to stop the work.

In my case, they started without an award. While I was away they dug up my garden. I now have a huge wall where once there was a fence covered in beautiful roses and clematis. I can't replant near the wall as anything I grow can't be attached to the wall itself. So I would have to put a fence in front of the wall, thus losing a few inches of garden.

I was too late to get an injunction. My solicitor said it would cost up to £3 k to get one anyway. My neighbours view was that he had done everything the act allows, but just without the expense of an award.

I am now faced with going to court to get the money for the garden. The stress has nearly killed me. Do I want to go through legal proceedings, having the stress carry on? Well, I want him to pay what he owes me, but many would say to let it go.

I am trying to move. I thought I knew what hate meant, but I really didn't until I met this man I now have to live next door to.

They absolutely do not want it to descend into this, and I'm sorry to hear about your situation.
Their garden is really not that big - if they had 100ft they wouldn't care, but the side return is probably 1/3 of the space which is why it being dug up is upsetting them. They currently do have plants growing on the fence, so yes it is likely these would have to go.

It seems it is best for us to wait and see what the surveyors come up with, hopefully we can get something both sides are happy with. I think the upset does come down to the way they've found out about it and the lack of any "coffee and cakes" approach. Having such a short timeframe to respond to the application has made them (and me also!) panic I think.

unforeseen

Do they realise that by employing a party wall surveyor before notification under PWA has been given that the cost of it is theirs and not the neighbour's. Any work completed by the surveyor before PWA is invoked cannot be charged to the neighbour.

loveka

Davesnave wrote: »

You are not in a good place.

How much of that is of your own making isn't possible for anyone else to determine, but if moving helps you to gain inner peace again, that's what you should do.

Frankly, a bit of garden soil is worth very little, compared with one's wellbeing.

It's not really a bit of garden soil. It was my garden, grown by me for over 20 years. It was beautiful.

The law allows someone to come along and destroy something that you love. My neighbour built a 15 metre wide extension. For the sake of a few inches he destroyed my garden.

Afterwards, he told me he had done it to punish me, as I had objected to his plans!

I can't stay living next door to someone who shows so little respect for me. It is sad, as I love this house.

Ironically, I was planning an extension before he moved in. He told me he was going to make it impossible for me to have my extension by employing the most expensive party wall surveyor at my cost. He really is the epitome of a neighbour from hell.

Doozergirl

Well, at least you know you can in fact build without employing a Party Wall Surveyor as he’s proven it.

The PWA wouldn’t apply anyway as you wouldn’t be excavating deeper than his own foundations. No agreement needed!

Davesnave

loveka wrote: »

It's not really a bit of garden soil. It was my garden, grown by me for over 20 years. It was beautiful.

The law allows someone to come along and destroy something that you love. My neighbour built a 15 metre wide extension. For the sake of a few inches he destroyed my garden.

However you look at it, it really is just a small sliver of garden, but in your mind it's become far more than that.

I'm a gardener, so I know gardens can be created and re-created very quickly. Sometimes, it's a good thing to have a clear-out and start again. The RHS doesn't allow their gardens to be static.

Four years ago, someone in a big digger carved a channel over 1metre deep and 10 metres long through the middle of our garden. Why doesn't matter. Today, no one would know that had happened.

moneyistooshorttomention

That is true - but we mustnt assume the plants are "bog standard - no problems to get - no sentimental attachments".

Sometimes the plants people have in their gardens are ones that have been difficult to source or do have sentimental attachments (mothers favourite rose - which she gave to them or the like).

Lucky_Duck_2

Reading some of the posts here remind me of why I'm of the view that people ought to buy a house large enough for their forseable needs in the first place rather inconvenience (or worse) their neighbours with building projects.

However, I suspect most will disagree with me on this.

lincroft1710

Lucky_Duck wrote: »

Reading some of the posts here remind me of why I'm of the view that people ought to buy a house large enough for their forseable in the needs in the first place rather inconvenience (or worse) their neighbours with building projects.

However, I suspect most will disagree with me on this.

1. People often buy what they can afford at the time.

2. Circumstances and lifestyles change

3. A property has the potential to be a dream or near perfect home if it was altered or extended and meets other criteria

Virtually every house I've lived in has been extended either during or after my occupation. On the estate I live you count the houses without extensions. Much, much quicker!

moneyistooshorttomention

Lucky_Duck wrote: »

Reading some of the posts here remind me of why I'm of the view that people ought to buy a house large enough for their forseable needs in the first place rather inconvenience (or worse) their neighbours with building projects.

However, I suspect most will disagree with me on this.

I'm going to agree with you.

The circumstances of these new neighbours can't have gone and changed already since they moved in one would have thought - as they have only just moved in.

So it's not like they moved in as a couple with one child and then had another one or the like and therefore needed an extra bedroom they may not have foreseen at the outset or one of them had had every intention of working in an office and has now decided to work from home instead.