Am I getting free gas?

sharkmark

Ok - long story edited to short one...

I switched both elec and gas from Npower to Scottish gas, or so I thought. Scottish Gas set me up as a customer fpr both elec and gas. HOWEVER within 2 weeks they sent a letter saying that "sorry I am leaving them for my gas supply" - I called them and said that I'd only just joined them... they said they'd investigate as British Gas were saying I was their customer (I've never communicated with British Gas so I was v.confused).

At this point I told Scottish Gas that I'd never spoken to British Gas. Scottish Gas said they'd investigate with british Gas as to whether it was a mistake in switching (forget terminology but was official procedure) and get back to me. Two weeks later I received a letter stating that they had investigated and British Gas had found no error and I was their customer.

The simple fact is that there was a mistake and I have never spoken to British Gas. They have not contacted me and I have no intention of ringing them (it's an 0870 number so why should I spend my money when it's their mistake!) - if they never contact me and I don't contact them what will happen.

As I see they cannot provide Ofgem or a court of law a contract with my signature on it. I have tried to inform them of their mistake through the correct channels (Scottish gas have undertaken the correct procedure) and British Gas still reckon I'm their customer. I don't want to be their customer as Scottish Gas deal is way better on dual fuel...therefore if they come back and try to charge me for the year I will be out of pocket. If however they cannot charge me and I'm getting free gas I will be much better off.

What is the legal stance on this - do I have a duty to inform them (I've already done that though and can prove this) - I presume this is therefore their mistake but there's probably some dodgy regulation that covers them for incompetence?

Thanks guys - any help greatly appreciated.

sharnad

one day you will get a large bill through the door

I had trouble when I moved into my new house trying to pay the bills and ended up with a large one which I payed over several months

Terrylw1

Hi,

SP probably referred to this as an Erroneous Transfer (ET). Basically, SP need to liaise with BGas and get them to follow the process to reverse it which isn't that difficult.

This happens quite a lot for various reasons e.g. dodgy sales agents signing up houses without calling for commission since they are leaving the company or even a neighbour signing up but your neighbour or the Supplier applies to register the wrong MPRN (MPAN in electric). This is quite common since they obtain the MPRN/MPAN either via the customer themselves or they contact the administration service (in Electric known as MPAS). All the services can make mistakes very easier which can cause you lots of hassle.

Suppliers have been signing up customers verbally for years with the full backing of Ofgem.

If you can't get anywhere with SP over this, go to Energywatch.

There's no dodgy regulation as the Supplier you have agreed to join is losing out. If this was not enforced, it would happen daily by greedy companies.

There is a full process in place in the industry to process the ET back to your Supplier but it must be done within 12 months or you would be stuck with BGas as ET's have a 14 month cutoff date for resolution as most Suppliers refuse to process after 12 months since it takes potentially a couple of months to get data correctly updated.

If you don't challenge this further, you will be tied to BGas as it will be assumed that you have changed your mind and agreed to be with them. You have informed them but if you stop challenging it could be assumed that you were mistaken from their point of view.

If you have done all the contact, have you written to a complaints dept within the Suppliers? You should try that first or Energywatch may ask you to do this first. Then complain to Energywatch and they will basically do the same but will monitor it until it's sorted.

Energywatch's contact details on the back of your bill.

Honestly, this happens all the time so the process to resolve it is well used. These companies tend to have an ET's teams who deal with them.

Good luck...

Claudie

Mu understanding is that you have to pay for the supply you have used; mistake is no excuse for not paying as you are aware that you have gas and you have chosen to use it. May sound unfair but at some point you will get a bill so I would start putting some ££ aside.

Terrylw1

Hi Claudie, under the ET processes the registration is "backed out" and only shows as ET in the registration services records.

So, your Supplier remains SP (in this case) who bills you for what you use. Because the registration is backed out, they get billed for your supply.

If this process was not in place, a Supplier could "steal" peoples MPAN/MPRN's very easily and get away with billing people a couple of months utilities because there would be nothing to stop them. In fact, Suppliers are not allowed to request information about addresses they don't supply because it's anti competitive and also a breech of the Data Protection Act. Suppliers and their staff are liable for charges where this has been proved and I can tell you now all Suppliers make their staff agree to this when they are given acces to online services such as MPAS Online to prevent such breeches.

ET's are on Energywatch's complaint tables because of the hassle they cause and how frequently happen.

sharkmark

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Hi,

SP probably referred to this as an Erroneous Transfer (ET). Basically, SP need to liaise with BGas and get them to follow the process to reverse it which isn't that difficult.


If you don't challenge this further, you will be tied to BGas as it will be assumed that you have changed your mind and agreed to be with them. You have informed them but if you stop challenging it could be assumed that you were mistaken from their point of view.
Good luck...

Thanks guys for all your replies - very helpful. When SP sent me the letter saying I was leaving them (2 weeks after joining them) I asked them to investigate and they did look at whether it was an ET. They came back saying that British Gas said it was not an ET and there was nothing more they can do.

Now at this point reading your posts I am the one having to do the legwork to tell BG that they are not my supplier (phoning Energywatch etc) - I would never have known this UNLESS I called SG in first place - I would have been blissfully unaware that BG had taken over my supply in fact.

I really cannot see legally how this would stand up in any court. BG don't have a contract to supply me gas - sorry to sound a little militant but if this happens all the time then surely someone needs to fix the problems in the system.

I shall continue to remain silent on this until my big bill arrives (which according to Terry (many thanks!) BG will not be able to send as they cannot get my address due to Data Protection) and when it does I'll ring BG and ask them to show me a signed contract. Until they can produce one I shall not pay a penny (ermm that's never then) and if they want to take me to court then I actually think they might be on a loser...

Cardew

This is confusing.

Scottish Gas and British Gas are one and the same company.

These days you often don't sign a contract with any utility company.

Don't want to go into 'deemed contracts' again lest we set off the bogus solicitor again!! However if you use gas/electricity you must pay for it to one company or the other.

I take it you have put all this in writing to the companies?

Pixie28

Sharkmark, as Cardew has stated, Brtitish Gas and Scottish Gas are the same company. In a later post you mention "SP"...are you meaning Scottish Power?

Cardew

You refer to Scottish Gas(in full) several times in your initial post.

The first mention of 'SP'(Scottish Power) came from Terrylw1 in post#3.(and again in post#5)

You then in Post#6 say that SP wrote to you - having said the same letter had come from Scottish Gas!

Could it be that you intended to change to SP but by mistake changed to Scottish Gas?

Terrylw1

Cardew wrote: »

You refer to Scottish Gas(in full) several times in your initial post.

The first mention of 'SP'(Scottish Power) came from Terrylw1 in post#3.(and again in post#5)

You then in Post#6 say that SP wrote to you - having said the same letter had come from Scottish Gas!

Could it be that you intended to change to SP but by mistake changed to Scottish Gas?

Apologies, that will be me and my typos. It will be as per the OP.

Terrylw1

sharkmark wrote: »

Thanks guys for all your replies - very helpful. When SP sent me the letter saying I was leaving them (2 weeks after joining them) I asked them to investigate and they did look at whether it was an ET. They came back saying that British Gas said it was not an ET and there was nothing more they can do.

Now at this point reading your posts I am the one having to do the legwork to tell BG that they are not my supplier (phoning Energywatch etc) - I would never have known this UNLESS I called SG in first place - I would have been blissfully unaware that BG had taken over my supply in fact.

I really cannot see legally how this would stand up in any court. BG don't have a contract to supply me gas - sorry to sound a little militant but if this happens all the time then surely someone needs to fix the problems in the system.

I shall continue to remain silent on this until my big bill arrives (which according to Terry (many thanks!) BG will not be able to send as they cannot get my address due to Data Protection) and when it does I'll ring BG and ask them to show me a signed contract. Until they can produce one I shall not pay a penny (ermm that's never then) and if they want to take me to court then I actually think they might be on a loser...

Hi,

I think you may have misunderstood my point over your address. Once they have registered your MPRN, they are your Supplier hence have full access to your address as it's recorded against your MPRN. So, you will get a bill.

My point of Data Protection was that Suppliers are not legally allowed to phish for customers via the distribution networks systems which hold all the addresses of the customers connected to their systems for each Supplier. You can dangle that at that for weight, but nothing more.

To be honest it they are still refusing, just write to Energywatch. If you wait, you're just going to have to deal it later anyway.

If you go down the contracts route they will just say it was a verbal sign up and then it just goes round and round. If they have no proof, just let Energywatch pass it on and it will get sorted then.

It's a bit of a ropey issue with these verbal sign ups that Ofgem have no issue against. They have been the source of many such arguments since there is no proof other than an account on the system.

All it takes for this to happen is the sales agent or your neighbour getting the address wrong and this happens to you instead of them. The process is very clear in the industry but it comes down to the human beings getting it wrong and you just can't stop the idiots in any industry!!!

It may depend where you live. For instance, the addresses in the Glasgow & London are often difficult to deal with due to how they are recorded so a lot of ET's happen in flats in those regions.