PIP Mental Health Law Change Help

Penguin90

I applied for PIP in 06/2016, requested an appeal (tribunal) 11/2016. I have severe anxiety and agoraphobia, I've literally not been outside for 10 years.

I'm still waiting for my tribunal to happen, but I'm now concerned that I may end up losing PIP altogether because the government has changed the law so that the words "For reasons other than psychological distress" will be added to the start of descriptors c, d and f in relation to "Planning and following journeys". Does anyone know if this change will be applied retroactively, or because I applied before March 16th 2017, am I safe?

Alice_Holt

My view is that it doesn't apply retrospectively.
I think it was included in the Regs from April 2016.

But you say "I applied for PIP in 06/2016," and "I applied before March 16,".

If it is June then it will apply.

Penguin90

Alice_Holt wrote: »

My view is that it doesn't apply retrospectively.
I think it was included in the Regs from April 2016.

But you say "I applied for PIP in 06/2016," and "I applied before March 16,".

If it is June then it will apply.

Ah, should have been clearer - I mean March 16th, 2017 (that is, I think, when the rule changes came in?). I hope I won't be caught by this very unfair rule.

[Deleted User]

I was a bit worried when I saw this post, as I have ASD and 'psychological distress' is why I have problems travelling (assuming this is what being overwhelmed and panicking is).

But I found this link where it does seem to say that if you have ASD such reasons are acceptable - could someone confirm?

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2017/april/people-mental-conditions-can-still-get-enhanced-pip-mobility-component-says-dwp

Apparently there is also a legal challenge due to appear in court on 12th December

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2017/november/legal-challenge-way-those-psychological-distress-are-treated-pip-rules

Penguin90

deannatrois wrote: »

I was a bit worried when I saw this post, as I have ASD and 'psychological distress' is why I have problems travelling (assuming this is what being overwhelmed and panicking is).

But I found this link where it does seem to say that if you have ASD such reasons are acceptable - could someone confirm?

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2017/april/people-mental-conditions-can-still-get-enhanced-pip-mobility-component-says-dwp

Apparently there is also a legal challenge due to appear in court on 12th December

https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2017/november/legal-challenge-way-those-psychological-distress-are-treated-pip-rules

Yeah I saw that too, but I don't meet any of the examples on the list. I feel like I'm precisely the type of person the DWP is trying to stop being able to claim. I'm really glad someone is challenging the decision but it could take a long time, especially if the verdict is appealed.

Penguin90

Penitent wrote: »

In your case, though, wouldn't you qualify under descriptor e if you can go anywhere at all? Or could you make a journey with the help of another person?

As far as I can see, the people it's designed to stop are those who can make journeys, but need support because of their mental health problems.

Yeah, this is what I was awarded:

Daily Living:
Preparing food – 2
Managing your treatment – 1
Mixing with other people – 4

Mobility:
Planning and following a journey – 10

I'm appealing because I feel I should have got Daily Living too, but my fear is that the judge may look at the new rules and take away my mobility points.

[Deleted User]

I've got to prepare a PIP application today (papers just arrived). I do have a support worker (social services). She said she'd fill the papers in for me so I'm just going to write on A4 what I'd fill the form in with and hope she can think of a better way to put things.

I know I have problems with numerous things (including medication and travelling) but it does seem like PIP is going to be unattainable. Its rather complicated knowing what to put.

Oh well, will see what happens and what she puts. I know when I had help filling in DLA forms for my older son and later on, younger son (both have ASD too), there was a vast improvement with my younger son's application because I had help filling in the forms. My older son is actually more 'disabled' by his condition but he gets less because I didn't word the answers correctly. That was only after appeal as well.

Penguin90

Penitent wrote: »

The new rules don't apply to descriptor e, so they'd have no basis to take those points away even if the new rules do apply. Descriptor e is specifically for people who experience psychological distress.

"e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant."

Oh, that is good to know. However, the law change means I won't be able to get 12 points for mobility (I was hoping the judge might bump me up - I don't understand why not being able to go outside due to a physical disability is treated differently to a mental one, the result is the same). It seems bizarre that the same government which talks about parity of esteem between physical and mental health treats them differently for PIP.

Penguin90

Penitent wrote: »

I may be reading it wrong, but it looks like f is for people who can make familiar journeys, but need support or an aid. The extra money is presumably to pay for this help.

I could only go outside with my occupational therapist (I say outside, I've only been able to get to the garden gate so far). But that service has been cut. I wouldn't mind paying some kind of therapist to come and help me, only I don't have the money.

Hoogle

I am at the severe end of the spectrum, Personality disorder, suffer from clinical depression and severe anxiety. My melt downs in public places have either got me banned from stores, Arrested or detained and sectioned for psychological evaluation sometimes I can go out to local shop at 6am etc if i am up to it or sometimes I can go days with no food in the house as I cant face going out. I have support workers I have reports from senior consultants, along with a letter stating that I could benefit from a treatment that is not available on the NHS as it is to expensive and PIP and a grant will help fund it £350 per week. I was turned down for pip only scoring 2 points for daily living and 4 points mobility. I had the forms filled out by specialist for my conditions included Medical evidence reports and even senior psychologist consultants stating why I would benefit from PIP payments..... I was declined on the grounds of no evidence to support my low mood. (guess a chief psychiatrist report stating severe clinical depression along with the police report of being tazed climbing over the railings of a bridge with a rope around my neck and sectioned for own safety is not evidence of low mood) Also had a note on system stating I was not fit for face to face interview from the DWP that had to stop my esa assessment due to problems it was causing me. They did in fact take this advice and make a decision purely paper based.

I sent my Mandatory Reconsideration once again written by a specialist breaking down the scoring the assessor gave me in each section along with another supporting letter from chief psychological consulting stating how shocked he was that I was not awarded any form of award, followed by several other letters from support workers and medical team, even had to pay £30 for a detailed medical report from doctors. Sent it off phoned them up 2 weeks later to check they had received it (1st class postage) They hadnt which meant after the 2 weeks I got my decision letter stating I had been declined after the date on it meaning I only had 2 weeks to appeal which is a lot of work to get from other people in short time. SO we explained that now they would have to receive photocopies as we couldnt get originals in time and they extended my appeal time by a further 28 days. Paid nearly £7 to send a copy of what was originally sent tracked and recorded, but 20 mins after doing that they phoned my support worker explaining thei8r mistake it had been received and was with the assessors and I should hear back by the 15th December.

Point is I believe it is pure pot luck if you get an award or not I do not believe they read all the evidence provided and I hope it does not have to go further than the MR as I can not cope with the hassle of a tribunal, and I think this is what they rely on. The whole process is not supporting in any way of mental health issues, the long waiting time between stages, the rejections which make you feel maybe you dont deserve the money etc and then they mess you around on top, yet if they asked you for something and you claim you sent it and they did not get it then your immediately sanctioned.

Dont get me wrong I believe in them checking and making sure claimants are deserving of the award, I know plenty of false claims go on and I also support the them saying jump and me responding with how high they are the ones giving you the money after all. But it makes me doubt the whole process with the amount of evidence supplied just to get 2 points for daily living was just a real shock to me and my health team especially as they have worked with people which appeared to have far less than me going on (I know everybody is different etc) been awarded it without problems.
A condition which could be treated to maintain it better as it gets worse with age but cant get the treatment on NHS as it is to expensive to me alone surely would justify pip.

Ames

Hoogle, you'd be better off starting your own thread as more people will see your post and reply.

The key thing that jumps out at me is that you need to consider the descriptors. It's not about what illness you have or how severe, it's how well you can explain that you meet the descriptors. A letter from a doctor, however senior or expert, that just says you could benefit from PIP isn't going to carry much weight. It needs to say that you have problems with x,y,z, basing it on the descriptors. You need to get points for the activities you can't do. That's all that counts.

That's not to say you don't qualify or shouldn't get it - just that you need to be very clear in the paperwork how your illness scores points.