Smart Meters

RandomQ

I do not have solar so everything solar is irrelevant to me



Besides you can't use less energy boiling at a lower kWh, just boil less water


Sorry, but the rest is just waffle

PennineAcute

Unless they upgrade the firmware of my current dumb SM, they can leave mine well alone. Easy to read, IHD shows meter readings. I managed to get rid of my liberty SM and there is no way I am having liberty installed.

To me, SM was beneficial. However, like others have said, the roll out has been a complete farce.

buglawton

Hengus wrote: »

Wait until the NAO produces its latest Report on programme costs. This is due out shortly. The reason why so many SMETS1 meters have been deployed is because key parts of the programme have just slipped to the right. DECC and now BEIS didn!!!8217;t want to stop/start the programme so they allowed the rollout of SMETS1 to continue. This is a decision that they may yet live to regret.

Just like DAB radio then, where the Europeans moved straight to DAB+ and we're stuck with inferior DAB. Some sort of 'British disease'?

zeupater

RandomQ wrote: »

I do not have solar so everything solar is irrelevant to me

Besides you can't use less energy boiling at a lower kWh, just boil less water

Sorry, but the rest is just waffle

Hi

So you'll not be having a CHP boiler or a domestic battery system or an electric car or a heat-pump .... that's the point, as mentioned it's not only solar, so although you feel it's not relevant at the moment, in not too many years time it's likely it will be ....

What you're missing in the kettle analogy is the source of the energy and the capability of whatever microgeneration or storage device you have ...

Take just batteries being charged overnight on a low cost tariff, with the energy being used within the house during the day when import (purchase) costs are much higher ... the battery will store what it stores, but importantly, will have a restriction on the power it can supply (kW restriction) before you need to import from the grid at a higher unit price ... not solar, but same logic ... in this case it may not be more 'environmentally friendly' due to not being able to ensure a carbon-free energy source, but it would be cheaper in that a 1kW kettle would likely be consuming a greater proportion of lower cost 'off peak' energy than a 3kW one if you want a cuppa during the day ....

No waffle, a more distributed generation & storage model is the way that our power supply is going , we all just need to get used to it or pay more than average for what we use - that's what HHM is for, different tariffs at different times if the day - some of them heavily punitive when demand ids high .... smart-meters allow HHM and HHM will be inevitably be used by the industry to roll out HHB because that's how they intend to shape consumer behaviour ... in a nutshell - it's as simple as that!

HTH
Z

S0litaire

RandomQ wrote: »

I do not have solar so everything solar is irrelevant to me



Besides you can't use less energy boiling at a lower kWh, just boil less water


Sorry, but the rest is just waffle

Actually you can...
Example:
I've a 2Kw kettle with a flat base element and it takes 2m 30s (on average) to boil 300Ml of room temperature water (83w used)

I also have a Hot water dispenser (which i use daily) it's rated at 800w
It takes 60 seconds to boil and dispense 300ml of room temperature water (13w)

So you can boil water with less energy in less time.
It's to do with the efficiency of the device being used.
:beer:

zeupater

S0litaire wrote: »

Actually you can...
Example:
I've a 2Kw kettle with a flat base element and it takes 2m 30s (on average) to boil 300Ml of room temperature water (83w used)

I also have a Hot water dispenser (which i use daily) it's rated at 800w
It takes 60 seconds to boil and dispense 300ml of room temperature water (13w)

So you can boil water with less energy in less time.
It's to do with the efficiency of the device being used.
:beer:

Hi

Any electrical heating element is actually that close to 100% efficient at converting energy to heat that it essentially makes no sense looking for any losses as they're smaller than a rounding error ... the only efficiency measure available with resistance heating of water is to ensure that the difference between the volume heated and the volume required is minimised as much as possible to avoid waste heat ...

If you're seeing a higher efficiency with a water dispenser than a kettle when heating a measured volume of water, it's probably due to a combination of a lower dispensing temperature being achieved with the water dispenser and the amount of heat being absorbed & lost by the dispenser structure being lower than the kettle ...

As a rule of thumb applying 1kW of heat for 1Hour raises the temperature of 1Tonne by 1DegreeC ... it's actually a little more than 1kWh, but it's an easy rule to remember in that simple form ...

HTH
Z

RandomQ

Hengus wrote: »

Wait until the NAO produces its latest Report on programme costs. This is due out shortly. The reason why so many SMETS1 meters have been deployed is because key parts of the programme have just slipped to the right. DECC and now BEIS didn!!!8217;t want to stop/start the programme so they allowed the rollout of SMETS1 to continue. This is a decision that they may yet live to regret.

I can think of millions of other that will regret that decision too, if not now at some point, like if their energy supplier puts up prices and they feel they must change supplier.

We all knock public sector projects and sometimes project times slip when new requirements are needed, but putting this much duff kit out there, it is plain STUPID.

System

RandomQ wrote: »

I can think of millions of other that will regret that decision too, if not now at some point, like if their energy supplier puts up prices and they feel they must change supplier.

The Foundation stage of the programme was designed to minimise risk by allowing suppliers time to upgrade their IT systems etc to cope with 30 minute smart meter readings. The programme delays are down to problems setting up The Data Communications Company which, in part, was down to the time that it took to develop and agree The Smart Metering Technical Specification 2 (SMETS2): a document that I understand runs to over 800 pages.

Having a smart meter does not stop any consumer from switching suppliers: the meter will continue to do what all meters do which is to record usage.

RandomQ

Except that it will then no longer be fit for purpose and readings will need to be taken.

larrywalker

Yes! I was referring to my post.
If my post isn't clear please let me know know and I will try and re-word it.
See post above - Thank you