CEL court claim issued - do I pay??

logician

Lozza63 wrote: »

Thanks for heads up on PPC's reading this. I have edited my posts But I see one of your replies to me also mentions my H's name. Could you also edit this? Thanks

Check your post #10 on this thread !

logician

Lozza63 wrote: »

I mentioned earlier that the court claim is in my husbands name as he is the registered keeper although he was not the driver. He has not seen the fine and would probably have made me pay it as he doesn't want his name on any register. If we end up going to court and lose - will his name go on any register?

Thanks

Your Husband needs to defend this - not you.

It is great he was not the driver and this can be stated in the Defence

CEL do not rely on POFA in any case -

NB your OH needs to look up a few more defence points than you have got...

System

@Logician

How come you are over on Pepipoo asking for advice (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115992) while over here you are giving it out.

Is this a form of multiple personalities or is it just a confusing adoption of another name.

Loadsofchildren123

Lozza, you defence points need to include
1. I was not driving.
2. I am RK but there was no NtK /the NtK was not compliant with POFA 2012 so I cannot be held liable as RK.
3. Even if I were liable..... and then your points re inadequate signage etc.


Please go back over all your posts to see if they need editing. I've edited mine.


For D to be liable as driver, Claimant will have to prove, on balance of probabilities, that he was driving. RK will produce in his WS evidence that others are insured to drive the car and will say that he wasn't driving on the date in question (if he can show he was elsewhere with eg. texts/emails that would be even better). If asked in court he can say he knows who was driving but is under no obligation to name them, and if asked further he can say it's a close family member. C will rely on Elliott v Loake and CPS v AJH Films, both of which can be seen off easily (C will claim these provide a presumption that RK was driving, but they don't). If it is found D wasn't driving, the only way he can be liable is as RK under POFA - if POFA not relied upon or the NtK is not POFA compliant (in terms of when it was served and its wording) then bingo.


The supplementary points re signage become secondary.


D must attend court to argue his case. He can use a lay rep if he wants, or a MacKenzie Friend (the latter helps him but doesn't speak for him, the former speaks on his behalf).

Loadsofchildren123

Lozza you still have two posts which name someone - you need to edit both of them, I've edited mine

logician

IamEmanresu wrote: »

@Logician

How come you are over on Pepipoo asking for advice (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=115992) while over here you are giving it out.

Is this a form of multiple personalities or is it just a confusing adoption of another name.

@IamEmanresu I can categorically state that I am not the Logician on Pepipoo.

VER5513

What a company this Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) is? A bunch of rogues to be polite. I have seen many threads which say ignore them, but believe me they have a habit of rearing their ugly heads years down the line. I spoke to the CCBC county court business centre and they were really helpful, but it does depend on who you get. However, they told me that they had known cases where CEL had pursued to court four years down the line. My case is 2 and ½ years down the line. However, the driver that the correspondence has gone to speaks limited English and I don't know whether this is why we have been targeted. Just recently,, they even sent people to say if he doesn't pay they will take his van away. So these are the type of people you are dealing with. My case is very simple and something we all do. We were told by a shop (on a main busy high street) to go around the back to load the furniture we had bought, which naturally we did, exactly 15 mins 23 secs to pay and load all the goods. AND THAT IS IT. we had our hazard lights on etc, never left the vehicle. So a month down the line we got the PCN for £60, shocked we went back to the shop, and they said don't worry they will sort it out a mistake had been made. A year later we got a similar letter from ZZPS, now quoting £200, again we went back to the shop, only this time the shop had closed down. So we phoned ZZPS and the driver said we could act on his behalf because his English was poor. So they said they would put it on hold until they receive further information. So we wrote emails, letters etc explained our case, but heard nothing so we naturally thought they had dropped the matter seeing that it was an innocent mistake. Now two and a half years later we have court proceedings against us for over £360. Unfortunately, because the driver's English was poor he didn't understand the correspondence from the courts and we are late in responding i.e. 28 days instead of 14 days. The court said the judgement may go against us because we haven't responded in time. I just wanted to share this as what I didn't; realise is that CEL has been endorsed by the British Parking Association and presumably has their seal of approval. I feel, therefore, that what people need to do is complain to the BPA to alert them and put in writing the poor practices of CEL. SO like most people in this sorry predicament it is a stressful waiting game, but I thank people for sharing their stories and giving others courage and advice. Thank you.

KeithP

VER5513 wrote: »

What a company this Civil Enforcement Ltd (CEL) is?

Yes, we all agree with that.

Unfortunately I didn't read any more of your post as I couldn't cope with that wall of text.

If you want help with your predicament, if indeed you have one, can I suggest you start your own thread?
But if you do that, please break up your post into paragraphs.

Loadsofchildren123

I think perhaps people who are receiving backdated PoC should complain to the BPA about sharp practices - but not sure the BPA remit would be to punish them for breaching court rules (is this even in their CoP? breaches of that are all they have the power to punish)

Lozza63

No surprise but I've just received my particulars of Claim in post yesterday. They are signed by a "named reresentative"from CEL legal department They were posted in brown envelope dated 1/11/2017 whereas my Claim form was dated Oct 11, 2017. Only a few days over the limit as per usual. I had tried calling the court yesterday but couldn't get through so sent an e-mail to the moneyclaim.gov email address stating particulars were late and asking for extension of time. Unfortunately, as I sent the e-mail they said they can't respond in detail as I'm not the defendant, but have attached below the reply I got from them for info:

I will continue with defence, but wanted to ask another question. Has anyone been to court with CEL and lost?

I know someone earlier said the cost of losing would be about £200 (ie less than the fine) but I don't quite understand this. How do the courts calculate the cost of what we would need to pay out if we lost. Is it not the whole fine plus the claimants expenses (and what expenses are the claimants allowed to ask for?)

Thanks