MCOL from CEL for PCN from October 2015

Loadsofchildren123

You can make your DPA breach claim for £300. The costs are separate. Your counterclaim costs are up for grabs provided you claim them (arguably you have) and your defence costs are claimable under R27.14(2)(g). So they will be on top of the £300.

They should have stopped retaining and processing your data straight away after you first wrote to them with proof you sold the car. The DVLA would have given them your details because they wouldn’t have updated the keeper details for some days after receiving notification of change of ownership.

Loadsofchildren123

It’s a conveyor belt as Umkomaas says. CEL very often discontinue, but not until you’ve had to go to all the trouble of descending. The good thing here is they can discontinue their claim but not your counterclaim, so the hearing remains and you go along to argue the counterclaim and the costs.

One thing to look out for - if they discontinue before the hearing fee is paid then YOU must pay the hearing fee otherwise your counterclaim gets struck out. Nobody will remind you to do this.

When the order comes through saying when the hearing fee is to be paid make sure you diarise it so that you don’t forget to pay it (if they have discontinued). If they don’t discontinue, they have to pay the hearing fee.

AMC666

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

It’s a conveyor belt as Umkomaas says. CEL very often discontinue, but not until you’ve had to go to all the trouble of descending. The good thing here is they can discontinue their claim but not your counterclaim, so the hearing remains and you go along to argue the counterclaim and the costs.

One thing to look out for - if they discontinue before the hearing fee is paid then YOU must pay the hearing fee otherwise your counterclaim gets struck out. Nobody will remind you to do this.

When the order comes through saying when the hearing fee is to be paid make sure you diarise it so that you don’t forget to pay it (if they have discontinued). If they don’t discontinue, they have to pay the hearing fee.

If they discontinue and I have to pay the hearing costs, can I claim this hearing cost back

Loadsofchildren123

Yes, as part of your costs.

I didn't answer you earlier question. Just write to CEL at this stage to say that para X of your defence contains a typographical error, where xxx2017 should be xxxx2015 (and they will be aware of this from your letter dated xxx). Say that if they require you to formally amend the defence you will do so at the start of the final hearing. In the same letter make it clear that the costs sought in your counterclaim are the costs of defending the claim (pursuant to Rule 27.14(2)(g), as well as the costs of bringing your counterclaim.

No need to copy this to the court at this stage, but I'd exhibit it to your statement when you eventually do that.

AMC666

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

Yes, as part of your costs.

I didn't answer you earlier question. Just write to CEL at this stage to say that para X of your defence contains a typographical error, where xxx2017 should be xxxx2015 (and they will be aware of this from your letter dated xxx). Say that if they require you to formally amend the defence you will do so at the start of the final hearing. In the same letter make it clear that the costs sought in your counterclaim are the costs of defending the claim (pursuant to Rule 27.14(2)(g), as well as the costs of bringing your counterclaim.

No need to copy this to the court at this stage, but I'd exhibit it to your statement when you eventually do that.

I am planning on sending the letter to CEL:

"In my defence I have stated the wrong dates. I have stated, by mistake, the dates are in 2017 when in fact it is 2015.
Just to be clear the date of the PCN is 22/10/15 and the date I disposed of the vehicle is 21/10/15.
Also, the costs sought in my counterclaim are the costs of defending the claim (pursuant to Rule 27.14(2)(g)), as well as the costs of bringing my counterclaim and for breach of the Data protection Act as I have sent you proof on 2 occasions that I disposed of the vehicle on 21/10/15. I will also be claiming my defence and other admin costs under R27.14(2)(g).
All costs will be included in my witness statement which I will send to court soon."

Will that letter be suitable for now, then I can do a full breakdown of everything else in my witness statement.

Is it wise to ask them for proof that the vehicle was in the car park at the times they state as I thought they would have included pictures of the vehicle entering and leaving the car park with the POC.

Lm41

Hi I'm in desperate need of help got 13days left to write a defence and haven't got anywhere I was given a ticket while standing at the ticket machine never got a ticket cos I was so annoyed at what I had just seen this guy do I ignored all letters as I was told to

nosferatu1001

Go start your own thread, as you agreed to do when signing up

You will need a LOT more detail on yuor thread, but you DO NOT identify the driver

WHo ever told you to ignore could [perhaps pay on your behalf?

AMC666

Update:

I received a letter from the county court stating that the claimant has to provide a new POC and the reasons why. I have put a link to the County Court letter and the new POC from CEL.

The County Court order states that the defendant can file a new defence so should I file a new defence (same defence but better structured) and include a schedule of costs. I also paid £25 to counter claim it when i filed my first defence so is that still valid.

Links

County Court Order P1 - [http://tinypic.com/r/nwc09l/9
County Court Order P2 - http://tinypic.com/r/2chq2qe/9

New POC P1 - http://tinypic.com/r/2mq3mus/9
New POC P2 - http://tinypic.com/r/dfb07/9

AMC666

Hi;

I have drafted a new defence, hoping someone can have a look to see if I can add anything else, thanks.

1: The amended particulars of claim ( from the claimant states “in addition to the full particulars of claim dated 11 October 2017”. The order dated 28 November states “The particulars of claim do not comply with CPR 16.4(1)(a) and are by this order struck out”. The particulars of claim dated 11 October 2017 does not apply as stated in the court order dated 28 November 2017.

2: CEL state on the MCOL claim form that POC will be sent within 14 days of the claim, in this case within 14 days from 04/10/17. I received the POC on 26/10/17, but the date on the POC states 11/10/17. The envelope they sent it is postmarked 25/10/17. They are obviously trying to make it look that they have sent it within the timeframe.

3: The claimant has not sent any directions questionnaire to the me. I have sent my directions questionnaire to the defendant on 31/10/17 and has receipt of posting from the post office.

4: The claimant states this claim is brought for breach of contract. There is no breach of contract as I am not the owner or registered keeper of the vehicle on the day in question (22/10/15) nor was I driving the vehicle in question after 21/10/15. The DVLA has on record that the car was sold on 21/10/15. I have sent this proof to CEL on 2 occasions. Once in November 2015 and again in January 2016 but they have ignored this.

5: Any problems they have with the details provided, they should take up with their data provider (DVLA) as I have sent proof twice to CEL from DVLA and they should have stopped pursuing me after I showed them more than adequate proof from the DVLA, the same people they use to get their data.

6: CEL have failed to supply any photographs or evidence of the driver, nor even the 'contract' (in this case presumably a sign), nor have they set out clearly, the basis upon which they are attempting to hold me liable. The charge is disingenuously described in your letter as 'your debt' and you have drawn up a draft claim form in my name, whilst failing to point out that this is/was a matter for a driver alone.

7: This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol (as outlined in the new Pre Action Protocol for Debt Claims, 1 October 2017). As an example as to why this prevents a full defence being filed at this time, a parking charge can be for trespass, breach of contract or a contractual charge. All these are treated differently in law and require a different defence. The wording of any contract will naturally be a key element in this matter, and a copy of the alleged contract has never been provided to the Defendant.

8: The Claim Form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail. The Defendant has no idea what the claim is about - why the charge arose, what the alleged contract was; nothing that could be considered a fair exchange of information.

9: The Claim Form Particulars did not contain any evidence of contravention or photographs. These documents, and the ‘Letter before County Court Claim’ should have been produced, pursuant to paragraph 6 of the Practice Direction – Pre Action Conduct. This constitutes a deliberate attempt to thwart any efforts to defend the claim or to “take stock”, pursuant to paragraph 12 of the Practice Direction. Again, this totally contradicts the guidance outlined in the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (2017), the aims of which are:
i. ‘early engagement and communication between the parties, including early exchange of sufficient information about the matter to help clarify whether there are any issues in dispute
ii. enable the parties to resolve the matter without the need to start court proceedings, including agreeing a reasonable repayment plan or considering using an Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) procedure
iii. encourage the parties to act in a reasonable and proportionate manner in all dealings with one another (for example, avoiding running up costs which do not bear a reasonable relationship to the sums in issue) and
iv. support the efficient management of proceedings that cannot be avoided.’

KeithP

Now that CEL have supplied a revised PoC, do your points 7. and 8. need adjustement?