MCOL from CEL for PCN from October 2015

AMC666

Hi;

I received a MCOL (Money claim online) in the post from CEL dated 18 October 2017 for a PCN from October 2015. I do remember getting a PCN in November 2015 and January 2016 and never heard from them after that until the MCOL came through the post.

Both times, I sent them a letter stating that I was no longer the owner of the car, and wasn't the owner of the car on the date of the PCN and I sent them proof of this. (I contacted DVLA for proof which they sent me showing that I was no longer the owner of the vehicle one day before the PCN). I did try calling CEL at the time but no one ever answers and it is just all automated tot take payments.

I never heard from them at all until I got a MCOL from the county court business centre. I had to reply quickly to it as I only realised I had few days left to file a counter claim which I did just to get it in on time.

On the counter claim I wrote that I was no longer the owner of the vehicle at the time of the PCN and the vehicle was no longer in my possession one day before the PCN and that I am counter claiming for £300 for misuse of data and court fees etc.

I did not get a letter before claim or anything and never heard from them after January 2016 until a MCOL came through the post.

I didn't write much in my counterclaim and just write that I am claiming costs for misuse of data and court costs.

Is it possible I can update and increase my counter claim to make it stronger. I thought at the time that saying I wasn't the owner of the vehicle at the time of the PCN and had sold it few days before the PCN would be enough to end and win this but CEL have sent me a particulars of claim to my counter claim so need some help.

I have read on the forum "I am aware that when a counter-claim was heard in D6GM2199 Civil Enforcement Ltd v Mr B, at Bury County Court in May 2017, DJ Osborne found that the £500 sum claimed by the data subject defendant was not unreasonable. He accepted the argument regarding data misuse under the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA); he accepted the tort of damages and stated that he was disappointed in the claimant bringing an unfounded case. Punitive costs of £405 were granted for unreasonable behaviour, and were paid by your company in addition to the £500 claim".

Since I am only counter claiming £300 is that the max I am allowed to claim or is there a way to increase the amount I wish to claim as the whole thing is just ridiculous now because after I wrote to them twice saying I was not the owner of the vehicle at the time and had sold it before the date of the PCN this would be the end of it but they some how think they have a claim.

Also, can someone help me write a stronger counterclaim and defence as I only wrote a few lines in my defence. Will I be allowed to send in a new counterclaim or new/updated defence.

I can post images of letters that they sent and what I wrote on my defence but not sure if I am allowed to.

Thank you.

Redx

I think you are incorrect here

I dont think you have a CCJ , the J means judgment and I am not convinced that this has been in front of a judge

what you seem to have is a recent MCOL from the Northampton CCBC on behalf of CEL

if this is correct, edit post #1 and remove the CCJ from the thread title and post itself

look up what the acronym CCJ actually means, a Judgment in a County Court

if its not been to county court , there aint no Judgment

AMC666

Redx wrote: »

I think you are incorrect here

I dont think you have a CCJ , the J means judgment and I am not convinced that this has been in front of a judge

what you seem to have is a recent MCOL from the Northampton CCBC on behalf of CEL

if this is correct, edit post #1 and remove the CCJ from the thread title and post itself

look up what the acronym CCJ actually means, a Judgment in a County Court

if its not been to county court , there aint no Judgment

Sorry about that, I have now edited CCJ to MCOL.

Redx

you said you have submitted the defence already , that was a bad (terrible) mistake

your defence cannot be altered or a new defence submitted without paying something like £255 to do so (AFAIK)

I suspect that as you have already submitted the defence and counter claim that it would cost you a great deal to alter these items

I suggest you post on here the redacted versions of those details so any legal eagles can give you critique or feedback

host the images on tinypic and put a dead url to them on here , changing http to hxxp

you had 28 days from the AOS to file the defence

as they say, act in haste , repent at leisure

AMC666

My defence stated the following

"When I first received the ticket apporx 8 weeks after the incident date, I informed the claimant, by post and email that I was no longer the owner of the car and even DVLA had registered it to the new owner on 21/10/17. the incident date is 22/10/17. I also informed them of this again in January 2016 as they had sent me a reminder and I never heard back from them until I received the CCJ. I have a picture of the log book showing that it was registered to new owner on 21/10/17 and I have also contacted DVLA about the dates which the car was owned by me"

My counterclaim (My claim is for section)

"Travel costs to court, stress and anxiety, data misuse"

Reading the defence I notice i put the year 2017 instead of 2015.

Original Claim form - hxxp://i65.tinypic.com/30ruxlc.jpg

Particular of claim P1 - hxxp://i64.tinypic.com/wl2dsw.jpg
Particular of claim P2 - hxxp://i68.tinypic.com/2navfb5.jpg

Defence to CC P1 - hxxp://i66.tinypic.com/sncwlx.jpg
Defence to CC P2 - hxxp://i67.tinypic.com/2wlx6o9.jpg

Proof of date of disposal of vehicle - hxxp://i63.tinypic.com/29prgac.jpg

I received the POC on 26/10/17 even though the letter is dated 11/10/17 and the date mark on the envelope is 25/10/17.

Redx

point of order, you have used the C word again

you need to remove this 3 letter word from your brain and substitute the M word instead lol

sp what you are saying is that this vehicle was no longer registered to yourself on the day the incident took place, it was in or just after the sales times and possibly in between you telling the DVLA and them changing it to a new keeper

AMC666

Sorry about using CCJ, I know I wasn't suppose but I just copied it from my defence verbatim and I actually used the word CCJ in the defence.

The incident took place on 22/10/15. DVLA record shows that i was no longer the owner of the vehicle from 21/10/15. (They have wrote to me confirming that I disposed of the vehicle on 21/10/15).

I thought this would be enough for CEL to stop writing to me but obviously they have took it further and have decided to do a MCOL, no idea what they're thinking.

Umkomaas

I thought this would be enough for CEL to stop writing to me but obviously they have took it further and have decided to do a MCOL, no idea what they're thinking.

They’re not ‘thinking’ anything. There’s every likelihood that they’ve not even read any letter you’ve sent them.

Your case will be in a pile (think in terms of barrowloads, not a neat wad of papers on a secretary’s desk) of unpaid tickets that are being shovelled onto a MCOL conveyor belt.

Many recipients will wilt at the sight of a court paper and pay up (CEL’s preferred position), many will ignore the claim and will have default judgments automatically registered against them, with eye watering effects on their credit rating which will eventually force them in having to face the CCJ against them.

Those who fight this, with a strong defence, will eventually see CEL discontinue, but you will have to jump through all their hoops as they will take this almost up to the wire. Discontinuances to CEL are just minor hiccups in the context of the rewards they reap from this strategy.

Your counterclaim will mean that CEL will not be able to simply discontinue this - it will go to court, unless a judge decides that neither side has a case, or you (or they) make a ‘drop hands’ proposal (Google it).

Coupon-mad

AMC666 wrote: »

Sorry about using CCJ, I know I wasn't suppose but I just copied it from my defence verbatim and I actually used the word CCJ in the defence.

The incident took place on 22/10/15. DVLA record shows that i was no longer the owner of the vehicle from 21/10/15. (They have wrote to me confirming that I disposed of the vehicle on 21/10/15).

I thought this would be enough for CEL to stop writing to me but obviously they have took it further and have decided to do a MCOL, no idea what they're thinking.

It is a perfectly decent defence in fact, and you just need to go through the motions now till they discontinue, as they will.

You won't have to appear at a hearing, we are willing to bet (not seen a single CEL one happen yet from a forum defence - and whilst yours isn't a forum defence it is an example of a person who is NOT liable and can prove it.

Check out the NEWBIES thread post #2 for what happens when because we can't field questions already covered there, such as ''eek, I have been sent a (completely normal and fully expected) N180 Directions Questionnaire, can you help me fill it in'' (fully covered in the NEWBIES thread in one of bargepole's informative posts, post linked there).

Make sure you do not miss any court deadlines and be ready for the later stages after N180 (i.e. the later 'WS'
= Witness Statement/evidence) as explained in the NEWBIES thread, and come back and tell us when they discontinue or when you want us to review your WS, if it gets that far.

AMC666

Coupon-mad wrote: »

It is a perfectly decent defence in fact, and you just need to go through the motions now till they discontinue, as they will.

You won't have to appear at a hearing, we are willing to bet (not seen a single CEL one happen yet from a forum defence - and whilst yours isn't a forum defence it is an example of a person who is NOT liable and can prove it.

Check out the NEWBIES thread post #2 for what happens when because we can't field questions already covered there, such as ''eek, I have been sent a (completely normal and fully expected) N180 Directions Questionnaire, can you help me fill it in'' (fully covered in the NEWBIES thread in one of bargepole's informative posts, post linked there).

Make sure you do not miss any court deadlines and be ready for the later stages after N180 (i.e. the later 'WS'
= Witness Statement/evidence) as explained in the NEWBIES thread, and come back and tell us when they discontinue or when you want us to review your WS, if it gets that far.

I have already filled in and posted the direction questionnaire yesterday. As far as I can tell I have 14 days before the court date to file any witness statement. I will start working on one this week.

Because I have filed a counterclaim for £300, am i not allowed to claim more than this?

Coupon-mad

What did your counter claim say?

Do NOT follow advice from any poster who has just joined, nor anyone who sends you a private message offering to help.