bitcoin trading.

adindas

k6chris wrote: »

Yes we will. Happy Christmas everyone :rotfl:

Noone has ever said that the value of Bitcoin will not drop dramatically, It is not impossible to even fall next to zero.

What is the value of an item if noone wants it.

Food and all items which are primary need of human have value. Food has it as if noone else wants it we could still eat it. You can not eat your Cryptocurrency.

Investing in a Cryptocurrency is a speculative move but comparing it with Ponzi/ Pyramid scheme is not appropriate given the definition of Ponzi/ Pyramid scheme.

BananaRepublic

adindas wrote: »

Have you googled it: Ponzi scheme, Bitcoin Pyramid.
What is the fundamental difference between Ponzi and Bitcoin ???
What did you find ???

Clearly you do not understand the English language. The list of respected organisations that describe Bitcoin as no more than gambling grows by the day. But hey, what do I know, I've not been supping the Bitcoin cool aid.

adindas

BananaRepublic wrote: »

Clearly you do not understand the English language. The list of respected organisations that describe Bitcoin as no more than gambling grows by the day. But hey, what do I know, I've not been supping the Bitcoin cool aid.

Gambling / Speculation whatever you want to call it now.

But this was not what you said before. Previously you said BTC was a Pyramid scheme which is not true. If you read Martin's article about BTC he refers BTC as a speculative investment but he never says that the BTC is a pyramid / Ponzi scheme.

BananaRepublic

adindas wrote: »

Gambling / Speculation whatever you want to call it now.

But this was not what you said before. Previously you said BTC was a Pyramid scheme which is not true. If you read Martin's article about BTC he refers BTC as a speculative investment but he never says that the BTC is a pyramid / Ponzi scheme.

No, I said "pyramid schemes and their ilk". Exactly what you want to call it is academic, it is a speculative bubble with little substance.

Malthusian

Pyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes have three common elements:
1) Money from new investors is used to pay old investors
2) When the scheme runs out of new investors, it collapses, and those who got in last lose money
3) Mens rea - those who start the scheme know (or must reasonably know) that the scheme will collapse and intend to defraud as many people as they can before it does

1) and 2) is true of Bitcoin but 3) is not - as far as we know "Satoshi Nakamoto" may genuinely intended it to have been a new currency and didn't forsee that speculators and rampers would render it useless for that purpose.

The rampers say that the lack of 3) means it isn't a Ponzi/pyramid scheme. The rest of us, like Meat Loaf, say that two out of three ain't bad. The lack of 3) simply makes Bitcoin the world's first decentralised Ponzi scheme.

adindas

Malthusian wrote: »

Pyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes have three common elements:
1) Money from new investors is used to pay old investors
2) When the scheme runs out of new investors, it collapses, and those who got in last lose money
3) Mens rea - those who start the scheme know (or must reasonably know) that the scheme will collapse and intend to defraud as many people as they can before it does

1) and 2) is true of Bitcoin but 3) is not - as far as we know "Satoshi Nakamoto" may genuinely intended it to have been a new currency and didn't forsee that speculators and rampers would render it useless for that purpose.

The rampers say that the lack of 3) means it isn't a Ponzi/pyramid scheme. The rest of us, like Meat Loaf, say that two out of three ain't bad. The lack of 3) simply makes Bitcoin the world's first decentralised Ponzi scheme.

I think something to do with Basic Economic Law : Supply and Demand.

Supply is limited to 21 mil. More people want it the price per unit will rise. No one wants it, price will drop next to none. Currently it is attracted to speculators and / or might be money launderer to launder money from illegal activities.

Leonardo da Vinci painting Salvator Mundi (Saviour of the World) sells for world record $450 million because there is only one painting and a lot of extremely wealthy people want it.

For ordinary people it is just a painting similar to the one sold by street vendors. What is the actual value of it, it is just a canvas and oil painting. You could hang it on your living room but you can not eat it.

Eco_Miser

I have never owned any crypto-currency, and would only consider doing so if it were genuinely useful as a currency, so probably never.
However

Malthusian wrote: »

Pyramid schemes and Ponzi schemes have three common elements:
1) Money from new investors is used to pay old investors
2) When the scheme runs out of new investors, it collapses, and those who got in last lose money

1) and 2) is true of Bitcoin but 3) is not

The rest of us, like Meat Loaf, say that two out of three ain't bad.

i) is true only in the same way it is true for any share: the new investor pays the old investor for the old investor's shares/coins.
The miners, who get paid in bitcoin, become investors in a different way (they've paid for equipment and electricity), and will get paid by new investors if they decide to sell.

2) is characteristic of a bubble, and has applied to tulips and gold, and various other tradeable things to which people have ascribed a value far in excess of their rational valuation.

Personally, I say two out of three ain't good enough.

This is an out of control bubble, and those who get out in time will get rich, those who come in late and those who actually believe in the currency so never consider getting out will lose.

elephantrosie

what i have noticed about cryptocurrency is, most investors are in their late teens and twenties. Also most of them are investing for the first time.

this may contribute to the unexplained rise and fall in the cryptocurrency value because these people do not do sufficient background and invest after a quick trip to cafe and hang out with peers who discussed about this quick money making scheme.

BananaRepublic

I find it obscene that ‘mining’ consumes huge amounts of electricity in countries where power is cheap. This generates huge amounts of CO2 and presumably pushes up the price of electricity for citizens in those poor countries. I also have issues buying into something that is a speculative bubble, whereby large numbers of people will lose money. Yes I might gain, but at what cost?

The volatility and limited number of transactions per second mean this is only ever going to be a niche commodity.

It is quite unlike shares, where you buy a share in a company in order to finance its growth, and the production of something society wants such as a car or a computer.

adindas

elephantrosie wrote: »

what i have noticed about cryptocurrency is, most investors are in their late teens and twenties. Also most of them are investing for the first time.

this may contribute to the unexplained rise and fall in the cryptocurrency value because these people do not do sufficient background and invest after a quick trip to cafe and hang out with peers who discussed about this quick money making scheme.

It is interesting do you have a link of this statistics ?

But I think this case prevails in any case of high risk (but possibly high return) investment. While people close to their retirement age are very cautious and prefer a very low risk, low return investment ?