Chip & pin cards

rossowheels

I had a bag stolen containing a visa debit and credit card. Both have been used and all the bank says is that the transactions are chip and pin as if that makes it alright. Does anyone know what rights consumers have when the PIN has not been divulged and the cards have been successfully used?

PixelPound

how did they know the pin? was it written down?

Candyapple

rossowheels wrote: »

I had a bag stolen containing a visa debit and credit card. Both have been used and all the bank says is that the transactions are chip and pin as if that makes it alright. Does anyone know what rights consumers have when the PIN has not been divulged and the cards have been successfully used?

Scenario 1: If the transactions were paid for by the person entering the PIN correctly then that suggests that you either had the PIN written down in your purse/wallet inside your bag - you would be held liable.

Scenario 2: The person had watched you shopping elsewhere/at a cash machine entering your PIN, followed you, stole your bag and then went on to make purchases.

If you are going with scenario 2, then you need to call both card companies and dispute the transactions. You also need to go to the police and file a crime report. Do you have any evidence that you were elsewhere when the transactions took place? E.g say you were at a coffee shop in Nottingham and the transactions took place in Sheffield, do you have receipts that could show this?

If your card company is not willing to help or investigate further, you are going to need to have as much evidence to back up your case and take it to the Ombudsman and hope that they find in your favour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/bank-accounts/11527993/I-lost-650-because-Tesco-thinks-I-wrote-down-my-Pin.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-2215223/Victim-chip-pin-fraud-Its-YOUR-fault-insist-banks.html

tastyhog

Candyapple wrote: »

Scenario 1: If the transactions were paid for by the person entering the PIN correctly then that suggests that you either had the PIN written down in your purse/wallet inside your bag - you would be held liable.

Scenario 2: The person had watched you shopping elsewhere/at a cash machine entering your PIN, followed you, stole your bag and then went on to make purchases.

If you are going with scenario 2, then you need to call both card companies and dispute the transactions. You also need to go to the police and file a crime report. Do you have any evidence that you were elsewhere when the transactions took place? E.g say you were at a coffee shop in Nottingham and the transactions took place in Sheffield, do you have receipts that could show this?

If your card company is not willing to help or investigate further, you are going to need to have as much evidence to back up your case and take it to the Ombudsman and hope that they find in your favour.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/bank-accounts/11527993/I-lost-650-because-Tesco-thinks-I-wrote-down-my-Pin.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-2215223/Victim-chip-pin-fraud-Its-YOUR-fault-insist-banks.html

point 2 wont help,because 2 cards have been used, presumably with the same pin, it's against card issuers terms to do this, to prevent this exact scenario, where a pin is obtained and all a persons cards are able to be used

RG2015

tastyhog wrote: »

point 2 wont help,because 2 cards have been used, presumably with the same pin, it's against card issuers terms to do this, to prevent this exact scenario, where a pin is obtained and all a persons cards are able to be used

Where in the terms does it say that a customer cannot use the same PIN for more than one card?

HogMan

I was thinking same thing. Another forum "fact".

Thinking about it when Barclaycard had both the Amex and Visa cards they were issued with the same PIN by default.

tastyhog

RG2015 wrote: »

Where in the terms does it say that a customer cannot use the same PIN for more than one card?

HogMan wrote: »

I was thinking same thing. Another forum "fact".

Thinking about it when Barclaycard had both the Amex and Visa cards they were issued with the same PIN by default.

hardly, here's a new article form 2012 stating it
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-2232430/Have-PIN-number-Its-YOUR-fault-cash-stolen.html

maybe you guys should familiarise yourself with your banking terms, which you did of course agree to when taking out a card / bank account

RG2015

tastyhog wrote: »

hardly, here's a new article form 2012 stating it
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/saving/article-2232430/Have-PIN-number-Its-YOUR-fault-cash-stolen.html

maybe you guys should familiarise yourself with your banking terms, which you did of course agree to when taking out a card / bank account

Thanks for the response but you haven’t actually answered my question. I do not recall seeing this in the terms and conditions but am happy to stand corrected. Are you able to post a link to the terms that include this provision?

RG2015

The closest I can find for Santander, one of the banks your 2012 "This is Money" article cites, is Section 9.7.i which is:

"take reasonable steps to avoid selecting a PIN or Personal Security Details that may be easy to guess."

I certainly believe that it is good advice to avoid using passwords and PINs more than once but I just wonder if This is Money follows the style of its owner, The Daily Mail.

Edit: Okay, I stand corrected. Section 9.7.k states the following:

"take reasonable steps to keep your PIN or Personal Security Details unique to the accounts that you hold with us."

I am now indeed indebted to you for bringing this to our attention.

Grudging apologies to This is Money and the Daily Mail too.

HogMan

I still can not find the restriction in the T&Cs of any of the cards I hold.

As I said before Barclaycard used to issue multiple cards with the same PIN.

FWIW I do have different PINs for each card anyway.

RG2015

Input from my wife. Nobody in any bank is meant to know your PINs. How then would they know if you had used the same PIN on more than one card?