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Economy 7 not fully connected
Comments
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@hd216 Thanks for the good news,
Will test tonight and check the hypothesis that everything will switch to low rate when the off speak starts0 -
The concept of Economy 7 is designed for storage heating systems.
....
With all of your other electrical appliances, you consume the electricity at the point of use. Therefore, you pay the tariff for that particular time... so unless you are nocturnal, there is not a lot you can practically do.
The concept of E7 is popularly used for storage heating systems, but depending on the part of the country you live in the actual use varies.
If the metering and internal wiring is set up the way the OP wants/hopes, then the practical thing most people do is to set appliances like dishwashers and washing machines to come on overnight during E7 hours. That, plus appliances like fridges and freezers (along with everything plugged in and left on standby
) can all contribute to the consumption during E7 hours reaching or exceeding the breakeven point.
Again, it depends on the area you live in. For example, in the former Eastern Region the use of washing machines and dishwashers at night was an important part of the promotion of the E7 tariff.But you arent 'losing out' on your appliances. The Economy 7 tariff is not set up with the idea of saving on using your dishwasher. It is set up to reduce electric heating during the day which adds a lot more demand to the grid than any appliance.When you hit the off peak time (ie 12 midnight) EVERYTHING is charged at the lower night rate. The dedicated off peak circuits to your immersion heater / night storage heaters are then switched on.
Come 7am when you go back to day rate EVERYTHING is charged at the day rate and the off peak dedicated circuit is disconnected.
That depends on how the OP's system is configured though. All consumption will only be charged at the off-peak rate if the main household circuits are fed from a meter terminal which records consumption on a time of day basis. Not everybody has one of those."In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
@hd216 Thanks for the good news,
Will test tonight and check the hypothesis that everything will switch to low rate when the off speak starts
Put something high usage (electric shower/heating) on when it does and see which register moves.
If you are on E7 it will be the night.
The setup you describe I have only ever seen with seperate meters, one being time restricted for usage.0 -
the off peak times are not set in stone, only radio teleswitch timer switches are accurate . depends on how accurate the timer switch is .@hd216 Thanks for the good news,
Will test tonight and check the hypothesis that everything will switch to low rate when the off speak starts
The old analogue meters have the cheap rate 7 hours set to anywhere in the 24 hrs, forget about published supplier timings. The cheap 7 hours rate could be at 5 pm in the evneing to 12 pm at night
.digital meters mostly have an inbuilt timer switch to switch to the cheap rate around midnight if their digital clocks have not drifted out of time, and many have now..up to 4 hours out of time in my experience, so they are not reliable
The only way to spot when the cheap rate comes into operation is for the occupier to observe the meter switching over, dont rely on published times.
Digital meters which are accurate are set to GMT all year, so even one which is accurate is an hour out due to BST0 -
The concept of E7 is popularly used for storage heating systems, but depending on the part of the country you live in the actual use varies.
If the metering and internal wiring is set up the way the OP wants/hopes, then the practical thing most people do is to set appliances like dishwashers and washing machines to come on overnight during E7 hours. That, plus appliances like fridges and freezers (along with everything plugged in and left on standby) can all contribute to the consumption during E7 hours reaching or exceeding the breakeven point.
Again, it depends on the area you live in. For example, in the former Eastern Region the use of washing machines and dishwashers at night was an important part of the promotion of the E7 tariff.
That depends on how the OP's system is configured though. All consumption will only be charged at the off-peak rate if the main household circuits are fed from a meter terminal which records consumption on a time of day basis. Not everybody has one of those.
Yes, I agree that you can do this but was just informing the OP that you cant just choose to run the cheaper meter in the day. As you say, the only way to take advantage of the cheaper tariff would be to run your appliances nocturnally.0 -
That depends on how the OP's system is configured though. All consumption will only be charged at the off-peak rate if the main household circuits are fed from a meter terminal which records consumption on a time of day basis. Not everybody has one of those.
This is incorrect and shows that you do not understand how E7 is actually metered and E7 is the tariff that the OP has stated that they are on.
What hd216 has already stated is 100% correct.
Your comment is unhelpful and will confuse those who don't know any better.
There is so much misinformation posted on these boards by people who obviously should refrain from posting on topics that they don't fully understand.0 -
This is incorrect and shows that you do not understand how E7 is actually metered and E7 is the tariff that the OP has stated that they are on.
What hd216 has already stated is 100% correct.
Your comment is unhelpful and will confuse those who don't know any better.
There is so much misinformation posted on these boards by people who obviously should refrain from posting on topics that they don't fully understand.
Would you like to elaborate then?
Bear in mind:
a) Not everybody has an "off peak dedicated circuit"
b) Not all versions of E7 are the same
c) Not everybody on an E7 tariff has a conventional E7 setup, E7 tariffs have been applied to legacy metering arrangements and household wiring.
d) We can only see part of the OP's installation and by their own admission they are not sure how it works.
If in light of that you still feel it is unreasonable to say "That depends on how the OP's system is configured though." then fair enough.
"In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
I think you're misunderstanding how economy 7 works:
When you hit the off peak time (ie 12 midnight) EVERYTHING is charged at the lower night rate.
The dedicated off peak circuits to your immersion heater / night storage heaters are then switched on.
Come 7am when you go back to day rate EVERYTHING is charged at the day rate and the off peak dedicated circuit is disconnected.
Think of this secondary circuit as nothing more than an elaborate time switch that controls immersion heaters and night storage heaters. If you have economy 7 provided you set your dishwasher / washing machine etc to come on during the lower rate time then it will benefit from the reduced costs.
Just to update hd216 was right. Thanks for the clarification!
Yesterday night I waited util 12:35 am (which is the time I can see the meter switching the rate) and took the recordings of the low and high rate.
I left one light on, did a dishwasher cycle and also left the heater for a few hours.
When I woke up about 7am when the low rate was still on, I went to check and only the watts for low rate have been recorded (extra 5 watts). High rate was untouched.
This is great news as there is no work to be done! I just wonder why the landlord would tell me only hot water was connected to the low rate.0 -
Just to update hd216 was right. Thanks for the clarification!
Yesterday night I waited util 12:35 am (which is the time I can see the meter switching the rate) and took the recordings of the low and high rate.
I left one light on, did a dishwasher cycle and also left the heater for a few hours.
When I woke up about 7am when the low rate was still on, I went to check and only the watts for low rate have been recorded (extra 5 watts). High rate was untouched.
This is great news as there is no work to be done! I just wonder why the landlord would tell me only hot water was connected to the low rate.
You do need to sit down and do some basics sums. As others have said, E7 makes sense when there is a high overnight energy requirement: charging storage heaters and electric vehicles come to mind. The 'penalty' for cheap overnight energy is usually a high day unit rate. Even moving such things as the washing machine and dishwasher to overnight may not compensate you for the cost of day time heating. You might be better off on a single tariff rate. Some suppliers will offer this for E7 meters; they just add the day and night usage together.
As I say, only you can do the calculations.
PS: it is just not possible to do a dishwasher cycle on 5 watts of electricity. You need to look again at your meter. I think that you mean 5kWhs.This is a system account and does not represent a real person. To contact the Forum Team email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com0 -
You do need to sit down and do some basics sums. As others have said, E7 makes sense when there is a high overnight energy requirement: charging storage heaters and electric vehicles come to mind. The 'penalty' for cheap overnight energy is usually a high day unit rate. Even moving such things as the washing machine and dishwasher to overnight may not compensate you for the cost of day time heating. You might be better off on a single tariff rate. Some suppliers will offer this for E7 meters; they just add the day and night usage together.
As I say, only you can do the calculations.
PS: it is just not possible to do a dishwasher cycle on 5 watts of electricity. You need to look again at your meter. I think that you mean 5kWhs.
- Yes I will need to have it for a few months and see if I would be better off with one single rate or leave it as it is. I have seen that a rule of thumb, is to have more than 50% of your electricity on low rate. So far I am at 67% so not too bad.
By the way, checked user manual of dishwasher, 1.5 kWh for the eco cycle. Hot water comes from tab (does not heat it's own hot water).0
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