Childcare is bloody expensive!

Comms69

I’m sorry but it says exactly that, that different portions of the brain activate when men and women experience compassion.

It goes on to say how compassion is expressed can be different.

Savvy_Sue

If you need a demonstration that it's societal, look at Finland. Don't know how it is now, but when DH was there 35+ years ago, female graduates outnumbered men HUGELY, in all subjects. If he'd been looking, his friends could have introduced him to numerous intelligent, educated Finnish ladies, DESPERATE to marry a man prepared to use half a brain instead of just brawn.

Now, my theory is this: you could not marry in Finland unless you were literate, and could demonstrate this. Men - sweeping generalisation here and in my experience - traditionally resist being 'tied down' in marriage. So the men would resist education, to remain 'free', and the women would learn, and learn, and learn. Engineers, scientists - degree courses full of women, with one or two men.

And just as in England men have sometimes been reluctant to marry a women better educated or earning more than them, so in Finland women wanted to marry men able to do more than drink and swing an axe.

BTW, the Finnish education system is radically different to the UK now, so I'm suspecting some of these things have changed.

ViolaLass

Comms69 wrote: »

But that’s my whole point. Women tend to go into caring professions due to their nature. Teaching used to be male dominated, but not anymore.

There was a marriage bar (if you marry, you can't be employed as a teacher or must leave if you were one) until between 1944 and the 60s (removed area by area). Unsurprisingly many women opted to stay when they were given the option.

And no, there is no innate difference between boys and girls except for their genitalia. If I am wrong, name that difference.

Try Cordelia Fine 'Delusions of Gender' and 'Testosterone Rex'.

Your assertion that choice is not affected by societal pressure is rather naive. To take one example, computing is often presented in society as being a 'boy's' thing (nerds etc tend to be male). Women are sent the message that this isn't for them and if they really want to pursue it, they will know that they are going against the norm. Sure, they can choose to but there are easier choices to make, particularly if you aren't conscious of the pressure. The same for boys who might want to become nursery workers, for example.

tooldle

I’ll give my experience. When approaching school leaving age, all pupils had to see the local careers adviser. Come the time of my appointment, i had a good idea of the path i wanted to follow. The careers advisor asked the question. I gave my answer. In response, the advisor asked me if i had considered a career in nursing.
I’m female. I wanted to become a professional engineer. The year was 1986.
I went to university and gained a BEng and a Phd.
The careers advisor was male.
I’ll let you draw yourown conclusion.

Comms69

tooldle wrote: »

I’ll give my experience. When approaching school leaving age, all pupils had to see the local careers adviser. Come the time of my appointment, i had a good idea of the path i wanted to follow. The careers advisor asked the question. I gave my answer. In response, the advisor asked me if i had considered a career in nursing.
I’m female. I wanted to become a professional engineer. The year was 1986.
I went to university and gained a BEng and a Phd.
The careers advisor was male.
I’ll let you draw yourown conclusion.

I’m sorry that was your experience, I would hope it is different now- it had been 30 years.

Comms69

ViolaLass wrote: »

There was a marriage bar (if you marry, you can't be employed as a teacher or must leave if you were one) until between 1944 and the 60s (removed area by area). Unsurprisingly many women opted to stay when they were given the option. - I didn’t know that, thanks for teaching me something new

And no, there is no innate difference between boys and girls except for their genitalia. If I am wrong, name that difference. - are we talking about just early years?

Try Cordelia Fine 'Delusions of Gender' and 'Testosterone Rex'. - been advised it numerous times, obviously I will do. I read a quick summary and it seems that her theories are well supported. - though there are a number of critics too. Obviously as will all studies and results, it’s worth considering numerous view points

Your assertion that choice is not affected by societal pressure is rather naive. To take one example, computing is often presented in society as being a 'boy's' thing (nerds etc tend to be male). Women are sent the message that this isn't for them and if they really want to pursue it, they will know that they are going against the norm. Sure, they can choose to but there are easier choices to make, particularly if you aren't conscious of the pressure. The same for boys who might want to become nursery workers, for example.

Can we stop with the general insults. Just because we disagree doesn’t make me naive.

Computing as a male thing? I agree it’s male dominated, but to say that’s because of society seems a stretch. Who is sending the messages?

I would argue - how badly do you want the career, if you’re going to make the ‘easier’ choice? Surely we should be encouraging parents to raise children who aren’t going to be easily pressured?

Is there something fundamentally wrong with gender dominated careers? Will having more women computing students be a better outcome?

I’m not saying that people shouldn’t go into any career they want, I’m just wondering if there is that clamour ?

Red-Squirrel_2

Comms69 wrote: »

The data I found suggest female teachers from 1975-2016 went from around 49% to 65% of the workforce. I can look further back, but aside from times of war during the first and Second World War, I would expect that the trend continues similarly going further back.

Got any graphs to back that up? :rotfl:

Comms69

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

If you need a demonstration that it's societal, look at Finland. Don't know how it is now, but when DH was there 35+ years ago, female graduates outnumbered men HUGELY, in all subjects. If he'd been looking, his friends could have introduced him to numerous intelligent, educated Finnish ladies, DESPERATE to marry a man prepared to use half a brain instead of just brawn.

Now, my theory is this: you could not marry in Finland unless you were literate, and could demonstrate this. Men - sweeping generalisation here and in my experience - traditionally resist being 'tied down' in marriage. So the men would resist education, to remain 'free', and the women would learn, and learn, and learn. Engineers, scientists - degree courses full of women, with one or two men.

And just as in England men have sometimes been reluctant to marry a women better educated or earning more than them, so in Finland women wanted to marry men able to do more than drink and swing an axe.

BTW, the Finnish education system is radically different to the UK now, so I'm suspecting some of these things have changed.

I suspect so, but I doubt that men deliberately missed out on well paid jobs to avoid marriage

Comms69

Red-Squirrel wrote: »

Got any graphs to back that up? :rotfl:

Sure: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SE.PRM.TCHR.FE.ZS?start=1975

happyandcontented

Comms69 wrote: »

I suspect so, but I doubt that men deliberately missed out on well paid jobs to avoid marriage

I agree, they would still have had the choice to marry or not if they were educated.