Dart Charge Issues

shaun_from_Africa

Mannion wrote: »

I paid immediately on our return on 23/08 and fully expecting some annoying legal communications had resigned myself to thinking we may have to pay some charge although I felt it extremely unjust. I received an email a receipt in a PDF and took a screenshot when I paid. At no stage was there any information suggesting that there was an issue with my payment or any further payments required.

This is where you went wrong.
Yes, you made a payment but by that time it was too late to use the "Make a payment" option on the Dart charge website. As baza states above, this option is only for crossings made the previous day or for crossings to be made in the next year, neither of which applied to your crossing.


Because of this, the payment that you made wouldn't have been connected to the crossing in question so when the penalty notice letter arrived, you should have followed the instructions on it.

BeenThroughItAll

Yet again, the curse of the poster who only wants to hear their own point of view validated by others strikes MSE.

Mannion

Yet the only option for someone wanting to make making a one off payment after what is for most people less than 1 1/2 days notice. Is to go to a pay page that says use for payment before the deadline. this is an obvious statement and could just mean you will be late anyway which I believed was the case. No detail about the extreme potential ramifications.
There are also 2 explicit statements of when not to use the page and neither case applies. If you are give one option to use, and when you use that option a statement essentially reminding you that you are late and 2 explicit cases when not to use that don't apply then if you want to do the right thing you would probably go ahead and pay.
Then the process and the letters tell you *NOTHING*

This is where you went wrong.

Yes obviously from the point of view of their potentially flawed system. However from the point of view of a consumer (MSE and all that) and a software user was it clear cut and it should be crystal clear every time in a decent system that I had gone wrong. I think at best its debatable. You won't know unless you experienced the exact same conditions of course but hey ho.

This really is software cowboy territory.


I don't want to only hear my own point of view but I want people to respond to the specifics of my post in its entirety. Although it is a little long and I apologise again most comments have missed the point entirely. I also will challenge any point that doesn't make sense e.g.:
Useful comment 1: I couldn't read the letter that hadn't arrived yet?
Useful comment 2: I should have paid in advance for the crossing I didn't intend to make and was forced to by last minute extreme circumstances.
Useful comment 3: I should have predicted the traffic situation that didn't exist at the start of my journey.
Useful comment 4: I shouldn't have set up a charge account after the fact when I actually didn't and setting up an account makes a no sense anyway.
and oh sooooo many more irrelevant gems
& lets not forget focusing on paying or not paying when I was always intending to pay????
and when the whole point is the argument that the information was misleading from the payment stage and in particular at the Warning Letter stage.

There seems to be a huge desire to want to be right about something but no real interest in helping. 4 statements have been of use and are helping and I do believe that I will get somewhere with this. I really don't know what all the other trolls are getting out of this.
*Don't help the guy who needs help on the help site* YAY!
and
*I feel superior because he is already starting at a disadvantage because he already has a problem.*
Not very MSE really if we're being honest.

Mannion

You would have seen plenty of signs about the crossing charge before you went over the bridge or through the tunnel.
You would have also seen the signs that say when you had to pay the toll by.

Absolutely not true but hey you can perfectly imagine the circumstances so you must be right I was only there.

You waited until after your holiday and thought you could just pay it then and that would be the end of it.

Absolute bollox this bears no resemblance to anything I have written all based on assumptions and deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. I'm glad you're offering me 'help'. Maybe your cunning analytical skills are the reason you can't actually provide any help?

You didn't read what you were paying for nor did you notice the details of what happens if you don't pay for a crossing by midnight the following day.

More pure fantasy. Have you read anything that I have written. Your help has been worthless and you are not helping at all. I can make that statement I'm the one seeking the help. Some comments have however been helpful.
I knew there was a penalty of some kind and I would probably have to pay it. I've always stated that. I 100% couldn't pay in England. If you believe that I could then its pointless talking anymore because I couldn't. Get it?

I chose not to pay roaming charges which could end up being more than the fine. I would never use an unsecured wifi at a resort because I'm not an imbecile.

I honestly don't think there's any point trying to comment on anything else that you spouted.

None of the above is the point by the way. that was covered in all those letters and words and stuff at the top.

I never actually called you a moron directly by the way. You however did so to me. I don't disagree with everyone I just objectively point out the poor analysis and flawed logic when it pops up. I was getting help before you piped up. You're not helping what exactly are you trying to gain? You want to stop me getting help on MSE? Nice work you are a hero.

Rover_Driver

As in post 52, did you use the 'Make a one-off payment' option on their website when you paid the £2.50? If so, that is what has caused the problem, you can only use that option for a crossing made since 6am the previous day.
If you used a different option, did you specify the date of the crossing?

Hermione_Granger

Mannion wrote: »

Although it is a little long and I apologise again most comments have missed the point entirely.

Have you considered that most comments haven't missed the point but instead of which, the people making those comments don't agree with your points?

I can't see why you consider the website flawed.
On the page where you make a payment, there are two options that the payment can be used for which are for a crossing the previous day or for a future crossing.
As neither of these applied to your case, why did you still make a deposit?
There are two phone numbers given on the website and a call to either of these would probably have explained exactly what you needed to do.

Surely as you work in IT you know that it makes sense to read exactly what you are agreeing to when sending money online and if you had done this before making your payment, the problem could have been avoided.

Hermione_Granger

Rover_Driver wrote: »

As in post 52, did you use the 'Make a one-off payment' option on their website when you paid the £2.50? If so, that is what has caused the problem, you can only use that option for a crossing made since 6am the previous day.
If you used a different option, did you specify the date of the crossing?

The only options for making payments are:
1/ Make a one off payment for recent or future crossings,
2/ Pay a penalty charge,
3/ Set up an account which you then fund for prepaying crossings.

None of these applied to the OP's crossing which is why they should have made a phonecall. Instead of this they made a payment which couldn't be connected to the earlier crossing.

Mannion

I think I have given cases that clearly show people missed the point as they simply did not apply. Have you read my examples I wonder?
I do actually listen and on 4 occasions I have appreciated relevant responses and not just people getting the (very) rough idea and deciding to have a go or jump on the mob mentality band wagon. A good example of this to prove my point is your last post.

Yes I could have phoned a number and you make a valid point. I accept that but it is easier to say with hindsight. I guess that being a software engineer I didn't think that this scenario could be completely bypassed and not considered at all. Phoning someone on a web site is the last resort and means that the web site has actually failed at that point.

I though the website is flawed because there was no option for someone to pay after the day to a day and a half deadline expires. For 2 whole weeks yes 14 out of 15 1/2 days? Anyone wanting to pay in that time has no direct option and yet that isn't clearly stated anywhere. Why clog the phones up when you have an automated web system?

I honestly did't think there was an issue because of the options available and the information provided. Lets be honest it would have been so easy to make it crystal clear. I do take your point and that is one thing I could have potentially done better. Its very different when actually believing there isn't a problem though. I can't understand why all scenarios are not covered. Its such a basic flow to consider. What stage of the process are you in?
1. Made a crossing since 6am yesterday. -> specific logic and dialog
2. Made an earlier crossing but haven't received a PCN (They take ages after all) -> specific logic and dialog
3. Made an earlier crossing and have received a PCN -> specific logic and dialog

Instead of lump 1. & 2. together with some vague combined text and then ignore 2 altogether.
Then hope anyone having any doubts decides to use the phone line. I can tell you now that if I proposed that tomorrow i would lose my job.

Even with this design then not using the database to link up the data to be aware of what was almost certainly happening in my case to at least provide some sort of message or to change the flow makes it even worse.

Mannion

1/ Make a one off payment for recent or future crossings,

From my perspective that certainly applies I'm afraid.

It was also the only option that made any sense.

Mannion

@Rover Driver

As in post 52, did you use the 'Make a one-off payment' option on their website when you paid the £2.50? If so, that is what has caused the problem, you can only use that option for a crossing made since 6am the previous day.
If you used a different option, did you specify the date of the crossing?

Thank you for your reasoned relevant and non judgmental response its not that hard after all.
This is what caused the problem and that is indeed clear. I would suggest that its easier to spot when you already know there is a problem. I've highlighted above that in this scenario the information could be a lot clearer (when seen collectively and in its complete form) at this stage and at the options stage on the web site and also in the Warning Letter and the PCN itself.

If you look at this from the could the customer have followed a better approach angle alone then you can come down on the I'm 100% wrong side.

If you consider this from the could it have been easily made much clearer and could there have been any confusion caused as it stands angle then I think you get a completely different perspective. I personally think its healthy to look a both.