Dart Charge Issues

Mannion

@verityboo

Making no assumption. Have received one of the letters before and know how clear they are (forgot we hadn’t registered one of our cars on our account). When we received the letter I went to the specific payment page stated in the letter for such late payments, quoted the reference number in the letter and paid the standard fee.
You made a payment which would have been valid for the 24 hours or so and would not have been connected with your previous crossing
You only have yourself to blame for not reading the letter and following the instructions

Pay careful attention here. When I was paying there was no letter? Follow the timeline precisely and you'll see my actual point. I would call not realising that and assuming I have a non existent letter a pretty huge assumption.

You only have yourself to blame for not reading the letter and following the instructions

unless of course you are suggesting I should have seen the letter from the future by concentrating extra hard. You are making the same mistake that I believe this flawed and under designed system made.

verityboo

Mannion wrote: »

Its worth pointing out that to be clear absolutely no one would intentionally avoid paying £2.50 when there is a potential £35 or £70 fine. The £2.50 is totally reasonable. I would probably be happy to pay more if I'm 100% honest.

I can’t see anyone suggesting you intentionally didn’t pay. You didn’t pay because you didn’t bother to read the letter properly or take a moment to consider the situation - something you don’t want to take responsibility for

Just consider for a moment what I said previously. How would they know that the vehicle hadn’t changed ownership in the time between the offence and the payment you made a couple of weeks later?

The only way for them to connect a payment with the previous crossing would be to use the correct payment page and quote the relevent reference number. Surely it would be obvious paying too soon you didn’t use the correct payment page or quote the reference number

DUTR

Mannion wrote: »

Thanks for continuing to read and reason this out. It is appreciated. There is no way this could have happened though. My original route would go nowhere near the crossing. I am unlikely to use the crossing for years if ever. Why on earth would I randomly start paying in advance for routes I don't intend to traverse? Do you suggest I also pay for any other UK chargeable routes on the 'off chance'?


Not in Nottingham it isn't. Herein lies the problem the Dart-Charge system and obviously the users as well make a huge amount of assumptions regarding what other people totally disconnected from the crossing should no in advance. This is symptomatic of cowboy IT system design. No decent Business Requirements phase. It has already been established in the media that the whole project has been mishandled at every stage.


I paid the initial £2.50 fee at the first opportunity within the UK which was always my intent. the first correspondence said that only had to pay the initial crossing fee by an extended date approximately 2 weeks in the future. All details are included in the initial post. Now I'm not sure who would pay when all the evidence they have available to them, which is quite substantial, points to the fact that they have already paid.

Its worth pointing out that to be clear absolutely no one would intentionally avoid paying £2.50 when there is a potential £35 or £70 fine. The £2.50 is totally reasonable. I would probably be happy to pay more if I'm 100% honest.

I'm not sure why you don't let it run to a court hearing (if you are so sure you are not in the wrong about it).
As I understand it, there is a fee due by the midnight of the following day of using the crossing? If this fee is not paid by then, then an additional fee is due, if this additional fee is not recieived including the due fee, then there is another additional fee. Now I don't know about you, but one can earn £70 or more in a day after tax, so arguing the toss is false economy , me? I would just put it as an additional cost for the holiday and be done with it, before it gets esculated.

ETA: Perhaps you used the wrong option to pay:
Pay or challenge a PCN (Penalty Charge Notice) Pay for a warning charge or a PCN

pelirocco

Mannion wrote: »

@tho
No you are wrong
There was no time at the airport we only just made it. thank God we set off so early, being organised, or we would have missed it. Anyway even if there was any time if you want to use airport wifi with your card details you are a moron who knows nothing about digital authentication and secure communications.

I thank you for the near. Last roundabout, gridlocked traffic, artics everywhere. Airport stress and a young family on board. You haven't got a clue. You have been 0 help so kindly vamoose. Also this point is absolutely irrelevant in the overall case.

You would never have only just made your plane ,you dont arrive at an airport and walk onto a plane just about to taxi down the runway
I think i read you had your partner with you ,they could have used a phone to pay during the journey, orbat the airport or even while you were sat on the plane before they request you stop using phones

Mannion

Are you serious? Are talking about making the payment? What letter? When I was paying there was no letter. There was no indication of a problem at any stage. I was paying the crossing fee for the car that I had used to make the crossing I was liable for using the website of the company that was owed the money. It kind of makes sense

Just consider for a moment what I said previously. How would they know that the vehicle hadn’t changed ownership in the time between the offence and the payment you made a couple of weeks later?

That is a possible issue and I do see the validity in this point. If its impossible however to pay between the initial deadline and the woefully slow Warning Letter then shouldn't that be stipulated somewhere or highlighted in the payment process? There are at least 4 occasions and probably many more where this issue could be identified.
None of this is documented. DO NOT PAY AFTER MIDNIGHT. Wait for the fine. might be worth stating. The problem with this type of design and system is that it doesn't consider all the real scenarios from the users perspective. This leads to incorrect functionality and behaviour when the user is following the actual instructions they have been given.

Mannion

@DUTR
When I paid there was no information just the information from the web site which is pretty direct. It is a payment for a crossing. I made a crossing. I was liable for a crossing charge. That is the web link I followed to the letter.

Mannion

@pelirocco

You would never have only just made your plane ,you dont arrive at an airport and walk onto a plane just about to taxi down the runway
I think i read you had your partner with you ,they could have used a phone to pay during the journey, orbat the airport or even while you were sat on the plane before they request you stop using phones

Good point and in deed there was some time on the actual airplane. Imagine the scenario with such a road snarl up though. We were not the only ones just arriving on time. The kids had been in a car for over 6 hours and couldn't go to the toilet while running through the airport. Wallets were initially in overhead lockers. We also knew nothing about Dart Charge and we had some connectivity issues. The attempt was a little desperate and didn't amount to much. I did have a phone in my hand and a browser open before we gave up though. Hand on heart it couldn't happen before we left. If that's too hard to imagine then i am jealous of your life. ;0)

You must remember the first priority would always be get on the plane. The Dart Charge issue was very secondary to the losing of £2500 of flights.

PLEASE REMEMBER that my complaint starts at the 2nd postal letter stage after the warning letter so strictly speaking this point is actually redundant.

verityboo

So to recap-
*The OP used the dartford crossing but didn’t make a payment by the following midnight
*On return from their holiday a week or two later they made a payment on the dartcharge site which it clearly states is valid for ‘crossings that you have made since 6am yesterday morning or for crossings you are due to make in the next 12 months.’ (so not relevent for the previous crossing)
*A couple of days later they receive a letter stating that the charge for the original crossing was not paid on time but by going to a specific payment page and quoting a specific penalty reference within a certain number of days then they only need to pay the original £2.50
*The OP failed to read the letter, failed to pay the £2.50 as requested so has now received a £105 penalty. This apparently is not their fault

Mannion

I'm not sure why you don't let it run to a court hearing (if you are so sure you are not in the wrong about it).

and that always works out with a company that doesn't have the traveller's interests at heart?

As I understand it, there is a fee due by the midnight of the following day of using the crossing? If this fee is not paid by then, then an additional fee is due, if this additional fee is not recieived including the due fee, then there is another additional fee.

An accurate generic stating of the facts without any of the specifics of this case. Fair enough you are right and no ones arguing but . . .

Now I don't know about you, but one can earn £70 or more in a day after tax, so arguing the toss is false economy , me? I would just put it as an additional cost for the holiday and be done with it, before it gets esculated.

Lets pay money to badly organised firms for their mistakes to encourage them to continue in that vein. Martin Lewis must be very proud of you. You really get this site.

The really sad thing is that Soolin was making sense and had read my complaint and all of this superficial opinion stating has totally obscured that fact and the valid progress that was being made.

baza52

Lets cut to the chase.

You would have seen plenty of signs about the crossing charge before you went over the bridge or through the tunnel.
You would have also seen the signs that say when you had to pay the toll by.

You waited until after your holiday and thought you could just pay it then and that would be the end of it.
You went online to pay but made a payment for a crossing in the future rather than the one you had done when going on holiday.
You didnt read what you were paying for nor did you notice the details of what happens if you dont pay for a crossing by midnight the following day.
You then get a PCN charge for not paying but decide not to pay it as you think you have sorted it
After not paying they increase the fine to £105.

You now ask for advice but think everyones advice is wrong as they do not agree with you and call them morons.
Your also an IT expert who thinks the system in place for taking payments was also designed by a Moron.

Sound about right so far?

As someone who also works in IT i would have found a way to get online, You could have used a VPN to pay or emailed a collegue, family member or friend to pay for you.
You say it would have cost more than the £2.50 to call from abroad to pay lol.
Now you have an extra £105 to pay for not making the call.

Only have yourself to blame as you Assumed far too much and ended up being a Moron.