Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Malthusian

Herzlos wrote: »

Everyone on both sides should be concerned about political interference.

We can't have political interference in politics, now can we?

Someone in the Times today claimed that Hungary's Viktor Orban wasn't legitimately elected. They claim the election was "rigged" on the grounds that 1) the media was biased 2) his party spent a lot of money campaigning 3) his party campaigned on immigration.

I hold no brief for the Hungarian president but if campaigning on immigration, spending money and having a partisan media constitutes rigging an election, every single democratic election throughout history has been rigged.

It illustrates how the concept of gracefully conceding an election is dead. The election is merely the middle act of a much longer festival of hate.

The insipid furore over the Brexit campaign's funding is the dying spasms of Remain. When a football match ends, nobody ever complains about the fouls and the dives committed by the losing team. Only by the winners. Remain's dodgy funders are forgotten in the same way everyone forgot about their lies about the Emergency Budget and the extra 4p on income tax.

Herzlos

You may find it insipid that remainers care about sovereignty; but I'd be stunned if the brexiteers wouldn't be in a forth outrage had the tables been turned.

It seems to be yet another case of "well, we got our way, so who cares?". It's a bit tedious.

iro

Herzlos wrote: »

You may find it insipid that remainers care about sovereignty; but I'd be stunned if the brexiteers wouldn't be in a forth outrage had the tables been turned.

It seems to be yet another case of "well, we got our way, so who cares?". It's a bit tedious.

Dont forget that many Leavers attitudes have been hardened by a blatant attempt to overturn the Brexit vote for the last two years.

Any bitterness is the result of those unwilling to accept the 17.4 million vote Brexit mandate:T

Zero_Gravitas

Herzlos wrote: »

You may find it insipid that remainers care about sovereignty; but I'd be stunned if the brexiteers wouldn't be in a forth outrage had the tables been turned.

It seems to be yet another case of "well, we got our way, so who cares?". It's a bit tedious.

There’s been a lot of this lately, and I think Polly Toynbee put her finger on it very well here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/05/march-brexiters-afraid-remain-peoples-will-vote

I suspect we’ll see a lot more of this sort of thing if the parliamentary votes don’t go the way the more extreme brexiteers want...

Thrugelmir

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

I suspect we’ll see a lot more of this sort of thing if the parliamentary votes don’t go the way the more extreme brexiteers want...

UK politics may be heading in the same direction as Italy's. With an alliance between the most unlikely of bedfellows. The old establishment is crumbling rapidly. Never thought that the EU would create turmoil when it's aim is to bring about peace and unity.

Herzlos

iro wrote: »

Dont forget that many Leavers attitudes have been hardened by a blatant attempt to overturn the Brexit vote for the last two years.

Any bitterness is the result of those unwilling to accept the 17.4 million vote Brexit mandate:T

Most of us have no interest in overturning the vote or accepting that 17.4 (51.9%) of the voters wanted Brexit. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be concerned about the things you claim to care about when it suits you - parliamentary sovereignty that's OK to violate as long as Brexit.


Accepting a vote 2 years ago is not the same as being willing to blindly jump off a cliff. I know there's a distinction there that you guys aren't happy with. I'm fine with Brexit, if you can convince me it's not going to be a disaster. Do I want to overturn it? Sure, but I know that's not going to happen. All the same, I'd rather we didn't make a total mess of it.


If you care about parliamentary sovereignty (which I know you don't), you'd be supporting Gina Miller in getting Parliament to have a say, the Lords in insisting Parliament has a say, and furious about any claims that one of the Leave campaigns were lying about involvement from the Russians.



Given your tiny margin and ebbing tides; you should be keen to appear to be squeaky clean, since you someone need to carry public opinion beyond a potential 2nd referendum.

gfplux

iro wrote: »

Dont forget that many Leavers attitudes have been hardened by a blatant attempt to overturn the Brexit vote for the last two years.

Any bitterness is the result of those unwilling to accept the 17.4 million vote Brexit mandate:T

So if Britain does not have enjoy an economic heaven after Brexit it will be all the fault of -

1) The EU
2) The remainers

And nothing to do with Brexit being a very bad idea and then badly executed by the British Government.

We are beginning to see Brexiters getting their excuses in early.

iro

gfplux wrote: »

So if Britain does not have enjoy an economic heaven after Brexit it will be all the fault of -

1) The EU
2) The remainers

And nothing to do with Brexit being a very bad idea and then badly executed by the British Government.

We are beginning to see Brexiters getting their excuses in early.

Constant 'Project Fear', negativity and a lack of acceptance of the EU referendum have created uncertainty.

We know who to blame!

kabayiri

This latest rearguard action is interesting by the various Remain MPs.

There were 3 decision points on the current path :

- the Brexit referendum
- the MP vote to trigger A50
- the GE, where any party could have stood on clear manifesto terms regards Customs Union; Single Market; Irish border etc

The fact that they didn't change the approach suggests they were happy to follow through on the original vote, no?

If a majority wanted to stop Brexit they would have voted LibDem. It's pretty straightforward. They didn't.

Matt_L

gfplux wrote: »

So if Britain does not have enjoy an economic heaven after Brexit it will be all the fault of -

1) The EU
2) The remainers

And nothing to do with Brexit being a very bad idea and then badly executed by the British Government.

We are beginning to see Brexiters getting their excuses in early.

To some extent, yes.

If i was running in a marathon hoping to win and you were there tripping me up and blocking my path at every turn then don't be surprised if i hold you partially responsible for not winning..