Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Arklight

Rinoa wrote: »

• Free to negotiate trade deals with other countries
• Full UK representation on world bodies (such as climate change) wheras currently we are represented by the EU.
• Free to adopt our own tax laws eg. womens sanitary products
• Taking back control of our fishing waters (eventually)
• Ensuring UK courts cannot be overruled by the ECJ
• Not having to pay £8.5Bn to the EU every year
• Most importantly the warm glow of satisfaction, knowing we are once again a sovereign country, free to make our own laws and govern ourselves as we so wish.

Lots of others but that'll do to be going on with.

Most of the countries we now desperately need to negotiate trade deals with are the ones right next door to us in Europe. The bloc we now have no representation within.

But that’s ok because we'll be paying a lot more than £8.5bn under Brexit-minus.

Yes damn the ECJ and the awful rights that it enforces, many of which were proposed by the UK. Once the Tories have torn all those up, enforced a British bill of rights, and got us eating some damn fine chlorinated American chicken, we'll feel the warm glow of pride alright.

Herzlos

Rinoa wrote: »

How many were influenced by the now discrdited 'project fear' propaganda.

Some non-zero number, but I assume less than the Leave lies, going by the polling and outrage.

Herzlos

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Whether we are in or out of the EU. The UK is the one in control of it's own long term destiny. The UK has faced the same structural issues for some decades. As a consequence is starting from a low base point.

We are as free to control our own long term destiny in or out of the EU, and seem to be squandering this great opportunity to shake things up due to a combination of incompetent and entrenched politicians - it works for them now so why do they care?

Rinoa wrote: »

• Free to negotiate trade deals with other countries
• Full UK representation on world bodies (such as climate change) wheras currently we are represented by the EU.

I'll give you those ones. On the face of it they are definitely benefits, if we can get trade deals faster and at least as good as the EU can. Since we're a smaller party and have less priority than the EU I'm not convinced. No-one has been able to give me an example of a trade deal we can take advantage of now that we've left.

• Free to adopt our own tax laws eg. womens sanitary products

I'm positive the EU has already allowed us to do this, insofar as we were given an exemption about taxing sanitary products.

• Taking back control of our fishing waters (eventually)

In as much as a deal with the EU allows us, and for what little of our fishing rights we haven't sold over to foreign companies.

• Ensuring UK courts cannot be overruled by the ECJ

I've never understood peoples objections to the ECJ; it's been a good thing for upholding our rights where our own government has been violating them. Plus, we'll still be under some level of ECJ jurisdiction where it pertains to our trade deal - so almost nothing will change despite what May is telling you.

• Not having to pay £8.5Bn to the EU every year

I'm positive that any deal we strike that includes services will involve a substantial payment to the EU, likely more than our rebated figure. In addition, any trading barriers may cost our economy more.


I see this as spending more on trade in order to not have to make a payment. Like paying £200 more for your annual shop in Tesco instead of paying £90 for membership to the Costco next door. You feel like you're not being screwed by Costco (or the EU) even though your actually worse off.

• Most importantly the warm glow of satisfaction, knowing we are once again a sovereign country, free to make our own laws and govern ourselves as we so wish.

I think this is the key one. This feeling that we've taken back control of our own destiny (despite never having lost it), to do things we already could, and being happy at the potentially significant cost to do so.

When dealing with some an illogical emotional response, there really is no valid counter argument. Unfortunately that warm, fuzzy feeling will go away they lose their job or services they rely on get their funding cut further due to the austerity introduced to deal with the weaker economy.

I fully understand why some people voted for Brexit, but I absolutely believe that Brexit will not address any of their concerns, rather making a lot of them worse.

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

When dealing with some an illogical emotional response, there really is no valid counter argument.

This precisely sums-up the problem with trying to converse with ardent Remainers, their entire outlook is predicated on the notion that change = bad, thus fear is the main driver in their thinking.


I keep hearing Aussies calling Talk Radio & LBC saying they are utterly perplexed by the Remainer disposition, that being a citizen of a proud, fiercely independent but FULL GLOBALLY ENGAGED nation is something to be proud of, not fear.

Lornapink

Remainers assure me Brexit is a disaster, that the economy will tank. Yet here we have another in a long line of foreign corporations signifying their confidence in Britain with ACTIONS, not lame words & spread-sheets.


Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation Europe signs a 20-year lease for 160,000 square foot of space in central London.
British Land: "A strong endorsement of London as a global city."
http://uk.businessinsider.com/japanese-bank-sumitomo-signs-20-year-lease-in-london-2018-2

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

When dealing with some an illogical emotional response, there really is no valid counter argument. Unfortunately that warm, fuzzy feeling will go away they lose their job or services they rely on get their funding cut further due to the austerity introduced to deal with the weaker economy.

The Swiss people overwhelmingly voted against joining the EU.
In your book this makes them thick, racist, small minded?


Iceland recently announced it wont be joining either. More thickies?

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

I mean, what are we doing in the tech space that literally every other country isn't? Are we leading anything?

In the last year we had more than 58,000 tech startups & more venture capital invested in UK than in Germany, France, Spain and Ireland combined.
Investment in the UK’s fintech segment is double the amount invested in 2016
http://www.ftseglobalmarkets.com/blog/the-forex-review/londons-fintech-investment-boom-will-be-boosted-by-brexit-not-hindered.html

Lornapink

Herzlos wrote: »

Some non-zero number, but I assume less than the Leave lies, going by the polling and outrage.

Most of Project Fear was built on manipulations and lies.
Even today they tell us we will all be pinned down and force fed Australian beef, yet these same cretins don't suggest we are forced to eat EU force-fed duck n geese products.
They also fail to mention we import an awful lot of low quality chicken from Thailand currently & that EU salads & produce are often washed in chlorine.


You have to be some kind of gullible to keep swallowing all this nonsense.

Arklight

Lornapink wrote: »

This precisely sums-up the problem with trying to converse with ardent Remainers, their entire outlook is predicated on the notion that change = bad, thus fear is the main driver in their thinking.


I keep hearing Aussies calling Talk Radio & LBC saying they are utterly perplexed by the Remainer disposition, that being a citizen of a proud, fiercely independent but FULL GLOBALLY ENGAGED nation is something to be proud of, not fear.

I don't listen to LBC Lorna, or watch much Jeremy Kyle as I have a job. I appreciate this means I miss out on an important Brexit channel of good news and feel good patriotism.

The Australians have at least started to talk about a trade deal with us. Sadly it's predicated on unconditional acceptance of their hormone treated beef. Currently banned by the EU it looks like their block-O-cows are coming to a supermarket near you.

As no British farmer will be able to compete with this aberration of nature on your dinner plate, they'll also be coming to a farm near you.

Arklight

ilovehouses wrote: »

We're already a full globally engaged nation - it's the likes of the Daily Express that are trying to instill the fear of God into leavers.

The thing the Brexit Flat Earthers don't understand is that a great part of the globe had had enough of the British to last a lifetime by the end of WW2.

For once, being on the right side of history during the war, mostly dismantling it's empire without shooting dead too many more rebelling brown people, joining the EU, and sorting out Northern Ireland finally gave the UK an identity that made post war sense and looked like the UK was on a journey towards some kind of enlightenment.

But the towering stupidity of Brexiteers and their absurd sense of victimhood has wrecked all that.

Brexit makes no sense and just looks like a bunch of silly jingoists who live on an island and are ignorant of any of their own history.