Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Lornapink

Tusk says 'one priority for the negotiations must be to avoid any disruption of flights post-Brexit'.


Deary me, I was promised by Remainers that the EU would ground our flights, lol.
Mmm, because that wouldn't have inflicted massive damage on Club Med tourist destinations, lol.

Thrugelmir

Lornapink wrote: »

1) EU unity is first & foremost
2) Only 4% of their exports come to UK - a nothing
3) EU business will put EU cohesion well above trade - EU biz wont beat Merkels door down
4) EU 'will just sell more into the massive EU market to make up for lost trade

The EU has factions. As the Italian elections have shown. There's a huge difference in public opinion between the rich north and the poor south. Suggesting that the "EU" cares nothing is an ambivalent line of thinking. Merkel is accountable to her own electorate first not that of the wider EU. Selling more to the rest of the wider EU is likewise lacking in perspective. Not least due to the poorer nature of much of it along with the high levels of unemployment. After all it was German manufacturers that abused Greece.

cogito

Moby wrote: »

I'm not choosing those terms, they are out there! As I said the perceived victimhood makes people feel that they have been ' sneered at'! That's how victimhood works. You are describing the phenomenon yourself but fail to see the energy behind it comes from their loss of dominance and patrimony. Italy is similar in some ways. Look at where the populist energy comes from....white males, tradition, Church. All groups who are losing control/power. Young people in Italy are rebelling against the stifling patriarchal traditions and this soft fascism is their Brexit backlash.

Young people everywhere have been rebelling for as long as anyone can remember but I doubt that they are rebelling against patriarchal traditions alone. The Church is, to my mind, one of the most fascist organisations on the planet so rebelling against it can hardly be called fascist, hard or soft.

What young people want above all is to make better lives for themselves and in a country with 35% youth unemployment and real earnings less than they were pre-euro, there's little chance of those better lives. Any rebellion is against politicians who have failed them which is why they have rejected the social democrat government and voted for the alternatives on offer because they have nothing to lose and if the EU doesn't like it, tough.

cogito

Lornapink wrote: »

(I also said previously they want access to our fishing grounds)


The European Union publishes its negotiating position for post-Brexit trade talks;

EU wants tariff-free and quota-free trade for goods

There can be no cherry-picking or !!!8220;partial participation!!!8221; in the single market, as the U.K. wants

Services will only be included with restrictions

EU is ready to change its position if the U.K. rubs out its red lines

EU wants close cooperation on defense, security and policing

Bloc wants to maintain existing reciprocal access to fishing waters and resources

They say there can be no cherry picking so they cherry pick. Odd that.

Lornapink

Thrugelmir wrote: »

People care more about their personal situations. Than political posturing. The effect on the ground will be minimal.The sun will rise in the morning and set in the evening. We survived the GFC. Brexit is just another day.

Yes, quite Thruge, all along Leavers said it would amount to a minor adjustment to the way we trade with one part of the world, that trade will go on regardless, but that we'd be globally autonomous and able to thrive as such.


All Remainer hysteria and doom is a fiction, none of their portended economic Armageddon will come to pass, planes wont be grounded, fruit will get picked and we'll go on buying houses in Spain, and all is well.

Lornapink

cogito wrote: »

They say there can be no cherry picking so they cherry pick. Odd that.

Exactly the point I sought to make last week. Somehow their cherry-picking is perfectly reasonable in the eyes of Remainers but ours is to be roundly condemned.

Similarly, Trump threatening tariffs - the work of a madman. EU threatening tariffs - perfectly reasonable.

These are prime examples of profound cognitive bias that have no relationship to objective truth telling.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

vivatifosi wrote: »

Trade will not be frictionless or smoother, it will be more complicated and costly..

Yep.

The first Free Trade Deal in history that will result in worse access and less free trade than we already have.

Bravo Brexiteers....:(

Moby

Tromking wrote: »

I'm not sure an ex-Miner living in an politically abandoned Pit Village had much power in the first place Moby.
The irony of course is that many in the immigrant communities that you laud have just as many questionable views as some of the established white population do.

Totally agreed Tromking.......and for too long such communities have not been listened too, (by Labour as much as anyone else), but we all have to acknowledge some responsibility for our situation as well. Many of these people don't and look for scapegoats all the time. The irony is of course their communities are likely to suffer even more after brexit? I thought one of the most significant commnets May made in her speech is that 'things are going to be different'.....I don't think she mean't this in a good way. I think the Govmt really fear the consequences of brexit. They obviously can't say as much for political reasons but put it this way the austerity agenda is likely to continue for years.

Moby

Lornapink wrote: »

All Remainer hysteria and doom is a fiction, none of their portended economic Armageddon will come to pass, planes wont be grounded, fruit will get picked and we'll go on buying houses in Spain, and all is well.

Planes may be grounded deliberately! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/ryanair-flights-brexit-eu-referendum-easyjet-british-airways-fares-prices-a7154366.html

Lornapink

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Yep.

The first Free Trade Deal in history that will result in worse access and less free trade than we already have.

Bravo Brexiteers....:(

Most sensible Brexiteers said 24 months ago we'd get a deal more or less good enough that UK-EU trade wont reduce, but that we'd capture the benefit of global autonomy and sitting on the global bodies that set the rules for the EU.