Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Rough_Justice

Matt_L wrote: »

Completely relevant, just because some bogus facebook page said we would stay in the SM or CU is irrelevant. All those leading both remain and leave camps during the referendum made it explicitly clear that a vote to leave means leaving the SM and CU...

That's right.
Not only here but those in the EU said as much.

Let's be honest, our media hasn't exactly shown itself to be impartial from the BBC to the tabloids but anybody relying upon what is posted on Facebook or Twitter displays a remarkable naivety.

gfplux

Rough_Justice wrote: »

It is supposed to be a negotiation, therefore I'm sure both parties could level the same accusation that the other side are wasting their time by not reaching agreement.

If you don't agree during negotiations you either talk some more or you call it a day and quit negotiating. Since the EU have refused to talk further it strikes me that it is the EU who are pushing for walking away, not the UK as the media (and Barnier if the report is true) are trying to suggest.

Just to repeat.
The EU and Britain NEGOTIATED a phase one agreement. The EU have spent the last few weeks turning that NEGOTIATED agreement into a legally binding leaving agreement. The first draft of this NEGOTIATED agreement will be published in the next couple of days.
What word do you not understand in the words of Davis/Barnier/May
We are delighted we have reached agreement on phase one after some hard negotiating.

It should also be said that British and EU representatives are sitting down in Brussels almost every day and discussing all the other 100s of things that have to be agreed before end March 2019.

phillw

Matt_L wrote: »

Poorly researched as most of it was taken completely out of context and none of it was said during the referendum campaign...

How about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzykce4oxII&feature=youtu.be&t=358

It's on his own youtube page. I don't think it's out of context. Did he later retract that?

He seems to have done after the referendum.

https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/09/daniel-hannan-repeat-after-me-single-market-membership-and-single-market-access-are-not-the-same-thing.html

Matt_L

Rough_Justice wrote: »

That's right.
Not only here but those in the EU said as much.

Let's be honest, our media hasn't exactly shown itself to be impartial from the BBC to the tabloids but anybody relying upon what is posted on Facebook or Twitter displays a remarkable naivety.

TBH i can't even understand why we spend so much time talking about staying in or out of the CU and SM. We voted to leave both, TM has repeated many times that we shall leave them both, she will reiterate this position on Friday. No stamping of feet, hissy fits or votes in the HoC will stop it.

We should be spending more time here looking forward to a wonderful future outside the EU..

Rough_Justice

gfplux wrote: »

The EU and Britain NEGOTIATED a phase one agreement. The EU have spent the last few weeks turning that NEGOTIATED agreement into a legally binding leaving agreement. The first draft of this NEGOTIATED agreement will be published in the next couple of days.
What word do you not understand in the words of Davis/Barnier/May
We are delighted we have reached agreement on phase one after some hard negotiating.

There is no need to be nasty, there has been a surfeit of that in this thread.
Desist please.

It's all bluster though, do you not realise that yet?
Posturing, huffing-and-puffing bluster.
On both sides.

Eurocrats love their bureaucracy and that is all your vaunted draft is, bureaucratic paperwork that in reality means nothing. ( Other than jobs for those responsible in setting out another worthless EU tome of course.)
Nil.
Zilch.
Nada.
Because until a final deal is agreed the paper is just that, worthless paper.

They have to keep up this bluster for another year yet, following which as many have suggested all the real decisions will be made in the final hours.

Once THAT is published would be the time to revere or to criticize, not now.
The final decision is the one that counts.

Matt_L

phillw wrote: »

How about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzykce4oxII&feature=youtu.be&t=358

It's on his own youtube page. I don't think it's out of context. Did he later retract that?

This was posted in 2015, long before the referendum campaign begun...

phillw

Matt_L wrote: »

This was posted in 2015, long before the referendum campaign begun...

The video was still available during the referendum campaign, if people saw it and didn't see him retract the statement (which I haven't found him do before the referendum) then the time he actually said it is irrelevant.

The leave campaign didn't really do a good job of saying "By the way, a vote for us means you should ignore what these people said a little while ago before the campaign started because we really are going to be leaving the single market and all these other things you might care about".

It was mostly Boris saying the EU stopped supermarkets selling bananas in bunches more than three. https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/05/why-wont-boris-stop-talking-about-bananas/

Matt_L wrote: »

TBH i can't even understand why we spend so much time talking about staying in or out of the CU and SM. We voted to leave both

You might have done, but in the run up to the referendum I spoke to people who voted to leave thinking that single market membership was still possible.

Matt_L wrote: »

TM has repeated many times that we shall leave them both, she will reiterate this position on Friday.

U Turn May has said many things. But what she has said was after the referendum, it's only her own opinion of how she is going to implement brexit. Jeremy Corbyn has a different view which seems more liberal. He might get the opportunity or he might not.

Matt_L wrote: »

We should be spending more time here looking forward to a wonderful future outside the EU..

If a wonderful future was possible then this thread wouldn't exist.

gfplux

Rough_Justice wrote: »

There is no need to be nasty, there has been a surfeit of that in this thread.
Desist please.

It's all bluster though, do you not realise that yet?
Posturing, huffing-and-puffing bluster.
On both sides.

Eurocrats love their bureaucracy and that is all your vaunted draft is, bureaucratic paperwork that in reality means nothing. ( Other than jobs for those responsible in setting out another worthless EU tome of course.)
Nil.
Zilch.
Nada.
Because until a final deal is agreed the paper is just that, worthless paper.

They have to keep up this bluster for another year yet, following which as many have suggested all the real decisions will be made in the final hours.

Once THAT is published would be the time to revere or to criticize, not now.
The final decision is the one that counts.

Sorry Rough, I was not intending to be rude.
The phrase what word..................
Used to be used in a very light hearted way and that was my intention
My apologies

Herzlos

Matt_L wrote: »

None of them said what you and others say they said during the referendum campaign..

We've quoted the actual words coming out of their mouths.

Rough_Justice

phillw wrote: »

How about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzykce4oxII&feature=youtu.be&t=358

It's on his own youtube page. I don't think it's out of context. Did he later retract that?

He seems to have done after the referendum.

https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/09/daniel-hannan-repeat-after-me-single-market-membership-and-single-market-access-are-not-the-same-thing.html

You realise that your link was posted 14th May 2015 but the referendum date was not announced until February 20th 2016?
As such it was not said during the referendum campaign but the year before.
So Matt is correct in saying

Matt_L wrote: »

..... and none of it was said during the referendum campaign ...

because it was said before the campaign.