Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

Herzlos

With NI flights over Europe, do you think the uk (with no flights) or the eu (with no flights from uk) will be in the worse position?

As I understand it, Spain is pretty popular with German tourists too. English tourists do spend money in Spain, but aren't holding the economy up, and have a terrible reputation abroad. I've heard of some places trying to bin English tourists because of the damage they do, so some in Spain might regard us getting cut off as a good thing.

On the other hand; If I can't fly freely to Europe I'd need to relocate. It'd also screw with trade as we'd need to send everything by road or sea.

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

You ignore, as most Remainers do, the ramifications for our democracy if the referendum vote is ignored or watered down.
Not for nothing has our Parliament (so far) not sought to vote down the will of the people as expressed in June 2016.

No, we're well aware of the ramifications of not following through with self destruction based on an insignificant majority in a non binding referendum. But we've wasted hundreds of pages on that already.
If you actually care about the will of the people you'd be all for another referendum to see what said will actually is.

We also know that by the time this is done at least half of the voters will be upaet; if they don't get the deal they want or their problems aren't solved by blaming a scapegoat.

Realistically the way for the Tories to upset the least amount of people is to just revoke A50 and say it's not viable. I reckon at least 80% of those that'd be upset will be upset anyway, but at least you aren't upsetting the Remainers too.

TrickyTree83

I cannot believe that you are seriously discussing "no flights" between the EU and the UK.

It's not a possibility. Not even a remote possibility. Anyone claiming that it is needs to be ridiculed into submission to rational thought. There's been some crazy claims on this board in the last 2 years but this "no flights" one is a peach.

Tromking

Herzlos wrote: »

No, we're well aware of the ramifications of not following through with self destruction based on an insignificant majority in a non binding referendum. But we've wasted hundreds of pages on that already.
If you actually care about the will of the people you'd be all for another referendum to see what said will actually is.

We also know that by the time this is done at least half of the voters will be upaet; if they don't get the deal they want or their problems aren't solved by blaming a scapegoat.

Realistically the way for the Tories to upset the least amount of people is to just revoke A50 and say it's not viable. I reckon at least 80% of those that'd be upset will be upset anyway, but at least you aren't upsetting the Remainers too.

The referendum result being an act of self destruction is conjecture on your part and remains to be seen.
The will of the British people was expressed in the referendum, why is another referendum required on that premise?
If the politicians do trust us enough with another referendum it'll be one which is granted off the backs of politicians who will have contrived to make Brexit too problematic to get through our Parliament.
You don't muck around with free and fair votes in a democracy, so be careful for what you wish for.

mayonnaise

Tromking wrote: »

You ignore, as most Remainers do, the ramifications for our democracy if the referendum vote is ignored or watered down.
Not for nothing has our Parliament (so far) not sought to vote down the will of the people as expressed in June 2016.

The ramifications of foolhardily pursuing brexit while public opinion is (slowly) but surely turning against it, can also not be ignored.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-poll-new-eu-leave-regret-remain-yougov-times-latest-theresa-may-bad-idea-a8000156.html
Fair enough, there was a slim majority for brexit in a non-legally binding, advisory referendum some time last year, but that's all really.

After all, there is a clear precedent.
When the public voted for 'Boaty McBoatface', they named the research vessel RRS Sir David Attenborough anyway.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

I cannot believe that you are seriously discussing "no flights" between the EU and the UK.

It's not a possibility. Not even a remote possibility. Anyone claiming that it is needs to be ridiculed into submission to rational thought. There's been some crazy claims on this board in the last 2 years but this "no flights" one is a peach.

It's a remote possibility in that flights will have problems, because it's an avenue that needs to be sorted. I think it's unrealistic that flight operators won't get it all sorted.

TrickyTree83

Herzlos wrote: »

It's a remote possibility in that flights will have problems, because it's an avenue that needs to be sorted. I think it's unrealistic that flight operators won't get it all sorted.

At worst there will be additional hurdles, a drop in passenger numbers if visa's are required, but the "no flights" scenario will never come to pass. It's truly absurd to suggest that it would/might.

Herzlos

Tromking wrote: »

The referendum result being an act of self destruction is conjecture on your part and remains to be seen.
The will of the British people was expressed in the referendum, why is another referendum required on that premise?

1. It arguably wasn't the will of the people; you can't make any serious decision with a 52% result.
2. On such a narrow margin, it's quite likely the will of the people has changed.

Would you be against another referendum had remain one with 52%? Farage would.

It'll be a lot cheaper and less painful to just stay in instead if leaving now and rejoining in 5-10 years time. Let's not be nave here; people will be campaigning to join the EU within 0.4 seconds of us leaving.

Herzlos

TrickyTree83 wrote: »

At worst there will be additional hurdles, a drop in passenger numbers if visa's are required, but the "no flights" scenario will never come to pass. It's truly absurd to suggest that it would/might.

It's absurd to think there will be flights because of Spanish hotel owners.

It's yet another complication from brexit that needs to be factored in. I don't think everything will be grounded unless we really screw things up.

System

We need some kind of deal.

The only plan that should be made in the event of no deal is how we cancel the whole thing. The governments job is to do what's best for the country and the people in it. Crashing out with an 18% GDP hit is the opposite, even if some of the population are still shouting "YOU LOST LOL GET OVER IT OUT IS OUT" with their fingers in their ears.