Brexit, the economy and house prices part 5

kabayiri

This whole 'betting on the referendum' result seems a bit risky to me.

Do you remember the mood music during the night? I can't be the only one to expect things to swing back towards Remain as the events progressed.

By comparison, when Soros was punting against the pound during the ERM crisis, he seemed to be on a slam dunk. The defence of the pound was a desperate rear guard action.

Moby

Farage had nothing to offer except the politics of hate energised by dog whistle blaming immigration for the country's ills. His 'party' were a one issue movement who have no answer to the migrant crisis in Africa except....'keep them out of old blighty'. They have now faded away as quickly as they emerged. The UKIPers are drifting back to the tories to ensure a brexit of some sort takes place while Farage tours the studios and talkshows, smoothes up to Trump and his cronies, never having actually been responsible for any decision of policy. He has probably made huge financial gains out of insider knowledge of the result and has a MEP salary and pension to boot. The sad irony is that many of his most fervent supporters are totally disadvantaged and will remain so after brexit. He has used them and manipulated them. He provided a lightning rod for their anger just like all the populists do. .....he was well able to describe a problem or unfairness but had no solutions to any of them.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

Farage had nothing to offer except the politics of hate energised by dog whistle blaming immigration for the country's ills.
...

Obviously, he did have something to offer, but it wasn't an offering to your liking.

His position on immigration has been long standing and common knowledge.

The job of the opposition during the ref campaign was to come up with an attractive counter option to Farage/Leave, and sell it to the public.

...something they spectacularly failed to do.

Politicians should be aware when the public mood switches to self interest. They got caught out. Farage can't be held responsible for the ineptness of Osborne and co surely?

Ballard

kabayiri wrote: »

This whole 'betting on the referendum' result seems a bit risky to me.

Do you remember the mood music during the night? I can't be the only one to expect things to swing back towards Remain as the events progressed.

By comparison, when Soros was punting against the pound during the ERM crisis, he seemed to be on a slam dunk. The defence of the pound was a desperate rear guard action.

The thing is that they could guage how the markets would react to a remain vote knowing that it’d be turned on its head when the actual result was known a few hours later. Easy money.

Graham_Devon

ilovehouses wrote: »

He's being blamed for playing the politics of hate not the ineptitude of Osborne et al.

He can only play such a game (though personally I don't think he played a game of hate), if people are willing to listen.

And plenty were.

You could equally call half the nation haters too, but it doesn't get us very far.

Sometimes we just have to accept a difference of opinion, and no matter how hard one may try (not referencing you here, just anyone), people will always, and always have had different opinions.

If we can't respect that, then the only real option is to move to a more dictatorship type state where our opinions are not asked for.

kabayiri

Graham_Devon wrote: »

He can only play such a game (though personally I don't think he played a game of hate), if people are willing to listen.

And plenty were.
...

It can't be proven that it was hate which drove the mass majority of leavers.

If you have lost your job to some local Poles or French or Dutch, you're probably more peeved about losing your job than against any particular nationality.

Moby

kabayiri wrote: »

Obviously, he did have something to offer, but it wasn't an offering to your liking.

His position on immigration has been long standing and common knowledge.

The job of the opposition during the ref campaign was to come up with an attractive counter option to Farage/Leave, and sell it to the public.

...something they spectacularly failed to do.

Politicians should be aware when the public mood switches to self interest. They got caught out. Farage can't be held responsible for the ineptness of Osborne and co surely?

....But what were his solutions? It's all very well pointing the finger of blame immigration this and that etc but he offered no solutions. Africa is a huge problem, parts are turning into dustbowl, huge parts are ungoverned and ungovernable, aids is rampant etc. Geographically Africa's migrants/refugees are always going to come to Europe. Our self interest is not going to change anything. What was needed is a co-ordinated EU wide response. Totally agree the EU to date has not shown any leadership on this....but the way to go was to improve things from within....not walk away imo ....that's just an abrogation of responsibility!

kabayiri

ilovehouses wrote: »

He's being blamed for playing the politics of hate not the ineptitude of Osborne et al.

Maybe you didn't tune into his show.

He invited a few people in to talk about how global trade was changing, and where we needed to be looking.

That isn't lies. The fact is that the EU has been losing world share on trade for 30 years. Strip out Germany and the situation is even worse.

Osborne did not address any of this, except to suggest the EU was doing just fine...which is patent nonsense.

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

....But what were his solutions? It's all very well pointing the finger of blame immigration this and that etc but he offered no solutions. Africa is a huge problem, parts are turning into dustbowl, huge parts are ungoverned and ungovernable, aids is rampant etc. Geographically Africa's migrants/refugees are always going to come to Europe. Our self interest is not going to change anything. What was needed is a co-ordinated EU wide response. Totally agree the EU to date has not shown any leadership on this....but the way to go was to improve things from within....not walk away imo ....that's just an abrogation of responsibility!

It's not our job to come up with a solution for Africa!

It's not Nigeria's job to come up with a solution for the refugees in Germany.

It's not Japan's job to worry about Mexicans illegally entering USA.

When did this liberal claptrap become popular, that we had to solve the world's ills?

Africa has to fix Africa's problems. The EU / UK can't find jobs for an extra 1 billion Africans in the next 30 years. It's fantasy.

kabayiri

ilovehouses wrote: »

Maybe but as unemployment hit a ten year low in 2016 it's hard to see that sort of resentment being that much of a factor.

We need more nuance in the employment debate, everyone knows that.

I was interested in a poll which asked people if they sought more or less work. The numbers who wanted more was significant.

I agree that actually losing a job is probably oversold, but the fear of losing your job is genuine, especially if you are in an area of short term contracts / self employed.

But...regardless...there really wasn't much vision in the Remain sales pitch. It was "you're alright Jack, so why complain". I can see why some people don't buy that.