HELP! CEL County Court Business Centre Claim (x2)

[Deleted User]

Ta. I keep on doing that... (the defendant is normally 'the enemy' in my day job).


It's all about fighting for the little guy

Insert_User_Name_Here

Great work Johnersh!
I just want to point out one issue, which I hope to get answered tomorrow:

Johnersh wrote: »

These will be sent by the claimants Solicitor not the court. The deemed date of service is the second business day after posting, so check for the date on the covering letter. If there is any doubt you may consider asking for their certificate of service.

In my particular case the promised particulars of claim arrived today - 21 days after the issue date of the claim form, so technically 2 days late (if you work on the 14 days plus 5 rule). However both the covering letter and signature on the statement form were dated Oct 1tth but the postmark on the envelope is Oct 25th. I will ring the court tomorrow to clarify what the actual date of service is in this case - if it has been lodged with them at-all!
If I took the date of service as the 11th +2 my 14 days would expire tomorrow.

Coupon-mad

If I took the date of service as the 11th +2 my 14 days would expire tomorrow.

But the 11th means nothing at all, it's just a false date on the POC.

Insert_User_Name_Here

Coupon-mad wrote: »

But the 11th means nothing at all, it's just a false date on the POC.

Exactly. It could almost be mistaken for a deliberate tactic to try and force a rushed response. I'm sure it's not of course,

[Deleted User]

TBH a 48 he delay, when the claimant has already served proceedings by the time you ask for directions may well be insufficient to get the claim struck anyway.

No harm in asking for the claimant to provide you with a certificate of service verified with a statement of truth if you have concerns.

Loadsofchildren123

keep that envelope
write to them with a photocopy of it and ask for an explanation as to why it is date marked 25th when their letter and the PoC were dated 11 October. And then request the certificate of service containing a statement of truth.

plymouth_damo

Hey everyone....sorry for my absence on this thread as I have been away for a few days. So to update I have just had exactly the same as Insert_User_name_here...I have since received particulars of Claim (envelope postmarked 23/10/17 but letter dated 11/10/17) ALSO NOTE I HAVE ONLY RECEIVED IT FOR ONE OF THE TWO CLAIMS ISSUED, the schedule of information refers to a singular PCN (which is the same one on both claim forms) so it seems they are duplicate claims as suspected.

this is what i have received:
IN THE COUNTY COURT BUSINESS CENTRE (CCBC)

CLAIM NUMBER: *********

BETWEEN

CIVIL ENFORCEMENT LIMITED

V

************ *************

PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

1. At all material times, the claimant managed the car park the address of which is stated on the attached Schedule of Information. The car part is private property.

2. By way of background, the claimant uses Automatic Number Plate Recognition (“ANPR”) camera at the entrance and exit of the Car Park, which identify time of arrival and departure of vehicles from the car park.

3. There are many clear and visible signs in the car park advising drivers of the terms and conditions of use. Drivers are permitted to park in the car park in accordance with the terms displayed on the signage, and these signs constitute an offer by the claimant to enter into a contract with drivers.

4. The key terms of the signs are summarised in the attatched schedule of information

5. When the defendant parked their vehicle (on the date and time as set out in the attached schedule of information) in the car park they accepted, by their conduct, the terms and conditions of parking. See VINE v Waltham Forest London Borough Council (2000) 4 ALL ER 169

6. The defendant breached the terms and conditions of the site and, as such, is liable to pay the claimant the amounts as set out in the attached schedule of information.

7. The Supreme Court judgement in the case of ParkingEye Limted V Beavis has established that it is both legal and commercially justifiable for car park operators to implement a disincentive, such as the above, so as to efficiently manage the car park for the benefit of its users. Our charge is neither extravagant nor unconscionable, and falls within the British Parking Associations guidelines as stated in their Code of Practice.

8. The claimant (directly/through its agents) was left with no alternative but to escalate the matter as a result of their non-payment of the debt, which further increased the amount owed, in accordance with the terms of parking.

9. The Claimant claims the amounts owed, plus court and legal fees, and interest, pursuant to section 69 of the Country Courts Act 1984 on the amount found to be due to the claimant as such rate, and for such period, as the court thinks fit.

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

I believe that the facts stated in the Particulars of Claim are true.
I am authorised by the claimant to sign this document on its behalf

Dated this 11 October 2017

Signed ***************

Ashley Cohen, Civil Enforcement Limited, Horton house, Exchange Flags. Liverpool L2 3PF
Schedule of information



Claimant: Civil Enforcement Limited
Defendant: ***********************
Vehicle Registration: **************
Date of incident: 17/08/2015
arrival time: 17/08/2015 17:28:11
departure time: 17/08/2015 22:06:04
Site Details: Car Park at ***********, *************
Outstanding Amount: £351.19 (including legal fees and interest to date)
summary of terms: £1 per hour or £12 per 24 hours, make your payment at hotel reception. If your hotel reservation includes parking, you must still register your car at reception. 15 minutes free parking for drop off/pickup - if you a) do not register your vehicle; or b) do not pay for your parking; or C) exceed the amount of time your vehicle is registered/paid for; or d) provide incorrect vehicle registration number; you agree to pay £100. Additional costs/recovery charges will be incurred if payment is not received within 28 days.

A) With the apparent duplication now confirmed (and the lack of detailed particulars for the 2nd of the 2 duplicate claims) what would be my best course of action with that one now, can i get the second claim struck out or do I defend with Res Dudicta? and if so how do i go about doing this?

Now with the detailed particulars for the first claim is there anything i need to do to my draft defense to take this into account. (also I have the same date discrepancy as mentioned above between letter date and post mark on the envelope) Shall I also follow the advice above and write to CEL to obtain a certificate of Service (or as Johnersh said is this likely to not have an effect anyway?) and what happens if i get no reply before the 28 days from service (which I calculate to be the 5th of November....claim issued 3rd + 5 days for service + 28 days...is that right Red X?)

plymouth_damo

Redx wrote: »

this was why I told this OP to TELEPHONE the court and find out and tell US (that is also what I meant about "how hard can it be ?")

in the time they spent replying today they could have phoned the court and enlightened all of us before lunchtime

they need to appreciate that when we say PHONE AND FIND OUT , we mean ring the ccbc and speak to a person and find out , due to the new changes

LOC123 has said in this thread today that people need to write to the court , with certain wordings

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5732603

that`s 2 "lawyers" advising this OP on what to get done, plus others like myself and CM and nosferatu all saying ring up and find out , as well as other GOOD advice

this OP needs to do more reading , more phoning , stop being stubborn and argumentative and follow what they are being told

yes we know you are new and dont understand , but we are all learning and there are over a dozen similar threads on here too about the same issues so you are NOT alone !

so find the time , do the research and help us to help you, after all , you are getting this advice for free , so start giving back and dont make assumptions

once you know what needs to be done and by what COURT deadline , you will have a better plan of action so tell us so we can tell everybody else (or tell them yourself on their threads , ie collaborate)

and as Johnnersh says, dont make it easy for the claimant , so maybe phoning and taking the foot OFF THE GAS is the correct approach

I would not be sending an email without a phone call to back it up, because the CCBC is snowed under and it will get lost, I an sure the CCBC is very busy dealing with similar queries

what the OP needs to understand is that in a few months time we will know the answers, once people like them have provided us with those answers

so PHONE , check , report back , tell us , so we learn for the next newbies

in general, the correct reply is

"thank you for all your replies, I will do what you say right away and over the next few days , and report back with the correct information so I can get bespoke advice in return"

ALL TAKEN ONBOARD REDX....my plan was the call CCBC today, but my flight back to the UK was delayed so only just got back now (and as posted in my other post have now had a development anyway) so am getting further advice now before I proceed so no more mistakes are made by me.

[Deleted User]

Random thoughts:

1. If this was a hotel car park and you were a guest is it possible that your car details WERE registered with the hotel eg at check in, even if for whatever reason, not entered on the PPC silly computer terminal?

2. The witness statement contains no details of the actual T&C's or sign placement - all of which are required either by the CPR or the protocol.

plymouth_damo

Johnersh wrote: »

Random thoughts:

1. If this was a hotel car park and you were a guest is it possible that your car details WERE registered with the hotel eg at check in, even if for whatever reason, not entered on the PPC silly computer terminal?

2. The witness statement contains no details of the actual T&C's or sign placement - all of which are required either by the CPR or the protocol.

Hi Johnersh

so in answer to you questions

1) It is certainly possible, although if I am being brutally honest its also equally possible I had simply forgotten on this occasion (is an airport hotel and am usually jet lagged at the point I check in), problem is it was over 2 years ago so have no recollection. I can double check with the hotel in question to see if they have anything on file with my booking but I usually pay in cash at reception as opposed to booking parking in advance so there is no record with the booking itself.

2) The only details I have are the ones they included in the schedule attached with the POC, so this is a valid point. Does 2 (f) in my draft defence already cover this or should there be additional wording included?