Gas meter capped when I was on holiday - help!

rtho782

I bet if you look at only people with faulty appliances emitting carbon monoxide the risks of death due to carbon monoxide poisoning are far greater than the risk of death due to hypothermia, given that it's not exactly the depths of winter, and coats and electric fires exist.

You should not have a choice to decide to ignore safety warnings with gas. Your house catching fire would likely impact others, as would CO poisoning if, for example, one of your visitors died on visiting your home.

CO poisoning is insidious and often not really noticed until it's too late.

If you don't want to replace your boiler, get someone else to fix it, they can then remove the meter cap. In the mean time it must not be used.

If you don't want to repair your boiler, get an electric fire.

Had he not capped the meter off, what would you have done, turned it back on and used it anyway, then gotten a lodger and murdered them with carbon monoxide?

System

If your lodger pays you any money then, for gas safety purposes, the law treats you as a Landlord, and you must have an annual Gas Safety Certificate (source Health and Safety Executive website).

I know that you were hoping that the process was nothing more than a formality but, with respect, you are making far too much of this situation. The engineer is only interested in making sure that your gas appliances, flues etc comply with relevant safety legislation. He may have been over zealous so the answer is to call in another engineer in to carry out a further safety check. If he is happy, then he will leave everything connected and he will issue a Gas Safety Certificate. At that point, you decide whether you have a case against the original engineer.

It is worth remembering that:

Landlords' responsibility for gas safety.

'As a landlord, you are legally responsible for the safety of your tenants in relation to gas safety. By law you must: Repair and maintain gas pipework, flues and appliances in safe condition.'

It is not up to the homeowner to determine what is and what isn't safe: that is a matter of legislation. For what it is worth, a valid Gas Safety Certificate provides you with a measure of legal protection from a third-party claim for negligence.

mouseclick

Just to clarify, for the benefit of rtho782 and Hengus, I am NOT A LANDLORD. Only I live here. Please read the thread. And the lodger option is clearly off now. It would have only been for maybe 6 months to a year, as I am eventually moving, and need the extra money to buy a house. I acted responsibly enough to get a test even though I did not need one. And I cannot use the appliances because the gas meter is capped.

What I object to is THE ENGINEER, WHO HAD MY EMAIL ADDRESS AND PHONE, DID NOT NOTIFY MR OF THE PROBLEM UNTIL A WEEK AFTER THE TEST. He could have so easily texted me. He told my neighbour who was here that he would tell me, to leave it to him, but he didn't. And his instructions from me were to service the boiler and test. I left extra money in case there was need for any work. He said this would be easy., and did ot mention there could be problems like this.

Instead of informing me of the severity of the problem, he posted pictures of the inside of my house to his Facebook site, presumably for his own benefit, and only told me the day after I got back. It was not nice to find I had no heating at all, when returning to a cold house at 2:30am, after travelling for 12 hours. There was no notice left even saying the gas meter was capped. I had never even heard of this when he told me, and the gas fire in my living room was partly dismantled, and away from the wall.

If I had been told when on a weeks holiday, the appliances could have been fixed. There is no question of murdering people rtho82. I am the only one at risk here, if anyone is. And even if I knowledgeably allowed someone else to live here, which I am, not, it would only be manslaughter, in an extreme case o murder could never be justified, as that is with intent. But bear in mind that only 24 people year die at home from this, out of 60 million. The boiler just needs a good clean, as House Martin says. This will be done as soon as I get an engineer who is available. Now they are all flat out busy, that is why my only option is to call the original one back. I figured a Landlord certificate would be useful to have. I got one when I lived in London. It was easy to get. It was given AFTER the boiler was cleaned.

In future, I will find a local engineer who puts his address on his documents, and give bills, and turns up on the day he is supposed to, not when I am away. And one who is prepared to work with older boilers, which, although less efficient, are more reliable.

And I hope is clear that I don't want to spend money on a new boiler, as whoever buys this house is going to completely redecorate it and fit new. So I can survive with a gas fire only, and an immersion heater. However, it would be nice if the Ideal Mexico can be cleaned. The pilot light has not gone out in about 10 years. It is a reliable old slogger

mouseclick

Hengus wrote: »

It is not up to the homeowner to determine what is and what isn't safe: that is a matter of legislation.

I disagree, I believe there is no obligation on me to service my equipment. Sure, it is a good idea, but as a private homeowner, I am not aware of any legislation. Same with electric. I think the rules govern installation, and for this, qualified tradesmen are required.

System

mouseclick wrote: »

I disagree, I believe there is no obligation on me to service my equipment. Sure, it is a good idea, but as a private homeowner, I am not aware of any legislation. Same with electric. I think the rules govern installation, and for this, qualified tradesmen are required.

You are correct, you are under no legal obligation to have your boiler serviced, flue checked etc as a homeowner. However, you made the correct and responsible decision to request a Gas Safety Check because you were thinking of getting a lodger. The check was carried out by a Gas Safe Registered engineer who then has a statutory duty to check your system (appliances, flues etc) in accordance with Technical Bulletin 1/2015. What you cannot do is turn the clock back. A cap has been inserted and your home will probably have been reported under RIDDOR. No Gas Safe Registered engineer will risk his/her reputation and livelihood, and turn your system back on unless he/she is satisfied that the system is now Gas Safe. The same situation could occur if an engineer was fitting a smart meter and became concerned about the position of the gas meter or routing of the supply pipe.

I know that you are upset with the engineer but it is clear that his actions were inline with the following paragraph in the Technical Bulletin:

6.1 Immediately Dangerous (ID) appliances/installations An ID appliance/installation is one which is an immediate danger to life or property. In general these will be RIDDOR reportable – see clause 8.3. Broadly, these will be appliances/installations that fail tightness tests, appliances that fail spillage tests or appliances which have serious flueing and/or ventilation and/or combustion deficiencies. With the gas user/responsible person’s agreement, the engineer shall make every endeavour to rectify the situation(s) and make the appliance/installation safe to use at the time of the visit. Where this is not possible, the following actions must be taken: a) Explain to the gas user/responsible person • that the appliance/installation is Immediately Dangerous • why the appliance/installation is Immediately Dangerous • that the appliance/installation MUST NOT BE USED • that it must be disconnected from the gas supply until the situation has been rectified and that further use would contravene the law e.g. GSIUR Regulation 34. b) With the permission of the gas user/responsible person, immediately DISCONNECT AND SEAL the gas supply to the appliance/installation with an appropriate fitting. If the gas user/responsible person refuses to allow disconnection, endeavour to turn off the appliance/installation and; i. For natural gas, make immediate contact with the Gas Emergency Contact Centre and obtain a job reference number from the operator and the time of the contact for record purposes (see Note 6 below). ii. For LPG, make immediate contact with the Gas Supplier. In both cases explain the course of action taken and the reason why the situation is considered to be Immediately Dangerous. – see contact details of Gas Emergency Service Providers and Gas Suppliers – in Table 2 of this Procedure) c) Where the gas user/responsible person is not present, it is recommended that the appliance/installation be DISCONNECTED AND SEALED from the gas supply with an appropriate fitting. However, in non-domestic premises see clause 5.6 and Note 5.

You obviously have the right to question the engineer about his actions.

badmemory

Don't trust a gas safe engineer. It is a bought & paid for qualification which may mean nothing other than they had enough cash to pay for it. I won't go into the gas safe engineer who fitted my boiler which then got condemned at its first service under a year later when supposedly under warranty & could have killed us! You don't want to know how much it cost me to get that put right.

IAmWales

badmemory wrote: »

Don't trust a gas safe engineer. It is a bought & paid for qualification which may mean nothing other than they had enough cash to pay for it. I won't go into the gas safe engineer who fitted my boiler which then got condemned at its first service under a year later when supposedly under warranty & could have killed us! You don't want to know how much it cost me to get that put right.

By law only a Gas Safe engine can work on gas appliances. Who else do you suggest OP gets to sort their boiler?

Not sure what you mean by a bought and paid for qualification? Engineers must be ACS/ NVQ qualified before they can apply for registration.

Don't judge a whole profession based on one bad experience. Most are extremely capable, even when having to deal with difficult customers like the OP.

mouseclick

IAmWales wrote: »

Most are extremely capable, even when having to deal with difficult customers like the OP.

Difficult, yes, because I decided on a lodger based to try and resolve some financial issues, now I regret that. And because I do not feel good, because I have no heating etc. Maybe also the standards are stricter for landlords, and it was wrong to ask for a certificate. I thought the standards would be equal. I wish the engineer had turned up on the day promised, or had phoned me, then I don't think there would have been any misunderstanding. I am not a landlord. I am the only one who lives here, and I cannot afford a new boiler etc. He may not have realised that.

On the subject of engineers, when you quoted badmemory, I did get a sympathetic ear from someone from Gas Safe, . The engineer himself did say to my neighbour he liked to be strict. But, as I said, there will be a second chance on Monday, to resolve the issue. And for future times. I have now found a neighbour who is an engineer with a good local reputation.

Doubtless people in the Industry will defend their position, but not all plumbers and heating engineers are angels, as I think was the implication by House Martin. They want to make money. And Gas Safe is run by Capita Gas Registration And Ancillary Services Limited. Limited companies must primarily serve their shareholders.

trickytree1963

mouseclick wrote: »

Difficult, yes, because I decided on a lodger based to try and resolve some financial issues, now I regret that. And because I do not feel good, because I have no heating etc. Maybe also the standards are stricter for landlords, and it was wrong to ask for a certificate. I thought the standards would be equal. I wish the engineer had turned up on the day promised, or had phoned me, then I don't think there would have been any misunderstanding. I am not a landlord. I am the only one who lives here, and I cannot afford a new boiler etc. He may not have realised that.

On the subject of engineers, when you quoted badmemory, I did get a sympathetic ear from someone from Gas Safe, . The engineer himself did say to my neighbour he liked to be strict. But, as I said, there will be a second chance on Monday, to resolve the issue. And for future times. I have now found a neighbour who is an engineer with a good local reputation.

Doubtless people in the Industry will defend their position, but not all plumbers and heating engineers are angels, as I think was the implication by House Martin. They want to make money. And Gas Safe is run by Capita Gas Registration And Ancillary Services Limited. Limited companies must primarily serve their shareholders.

Gas Safe Register is run by Capita on behalf of the H & SE . You really need to get it out of your head that its a money making scheme

"The purpose of the Gas Safe Register is to protect the public from unsafe gas work. It does this in two main ways, operation of the Register itself e.g. ensuring that the list of competent and qualified to carry out work is accurate and up-to-date, inspecting the work of Gas Safe registered engineers and investigating reports of illegal gas work. The second area is to conduct public awareness campaigns to raise awareness of gas safety issues."

Michaelw

I had this with a boiler a few years back.The engineer turned up stuck a dangling warning triangle on the boiler and threatened to have the road dug up outside if I didnt let have access to the pipe and insert a cap.

It needs a Corgi qualified engineer to inspect the the boiler and they are able to remove the gas stop disk.Once the system has been serviced and checked then its fine.