UKPC PCN - Julian's Car Park Didcot

mightbedave

[Just had to set up a new user name as original could give my name away]

The driver of my car recently got a PCN on the windscreen at this car park. Basically payment was made by Ringgo (the only payment option) but later in the day and before returning to the car. The tariff is a fixed rate for the whole day. The PCN was issued before payment was made.

The signs in the car park are so poor that I am confident of winning on that basis at POPLA appeal stage. E.g.
- Entrance sign does not state that the car park is managed and there is no mention of UKPC
- The main sign in the car park doesn't make any reference to a penalty charge for not paying the tariff or any other terms and conditions - also no mention of UKPC on that sign.
- There is a small UKPC sign with the full terms but this was genuinely not seen by the driver.

None of the signs say when the tariff has to be paid.

Given the tariff was paid but after the PCN was issued is it worth adding this to the POPLA appeal? Or should I leave it out and stick to the standard appeals as outlined in the NEWBIE thread - majoring on the poor signage, and leave out the payment info?

The slight complication is that I was with the driver at the time and paid the tariff on my phone under my name. I genuinely was not the driver though.

Thanks in advance - I'll keep you updated on the result of my appeal.

Redx

add details of the payment without inferring who was driving

as an "occupant" of the vehicle if necessary

try not to blab too much in any additional wording , sometimes less is more , keep your powder dry for popla

KeithP

Check Ringgo. Did you enter the registration number correctly?

mightbedave

KeithP wrote: »

Check Ringgo. Did you enter the registration number correctly?

Yes, it was entered correctly. Timeline was roughly:

11:40 Entered car park
12:00 PCN issued
16:00 Paid tariff for whole day parking by Ringgo
20:00 Returned to car and exited car park

Basically the driver forgot to pay in the rush to catch a train. Then remembered later in the day.

No signs in the car park state when payment has to be made.

Coupon-mad

Given the tariff was paid but after the PCN was issued is it worth adding this to the POPLA appeal? Or should I leave it out and stick to the standard appeals as outlined in the NEWBIE thread - majoring on the poor signage, and leave out the payment info?

No, have that as your first appeal point, that the terms were not breached because payment for all day was made as soon as the App could be used that day, which was well before returning to the car park and leaving. Since the signs do not state that payment must be made within any particular time during the period of parking and the car driver certainly did not leave without paying, and there can be no breach by 'not displaying' either, when using an App, there is no contractual breach in this instance that can give rise to a parking charge.

I was with the driver at the time and paid the tariff on my phone under my name. I genuinely was not the driver though.

State that to POPLA at the start of the appeal, so they know how come yo are able to report what happened - say you were a passenger and are the keeper of the car, and your phone was used to pay the tariff that day, but you were not the driver.

And add all the usual template stuff for POPLA from post #3 of the NEWBIES thread. Show us!

fisherjim

The signage (according to Streetview) at this car park is woefully inadequate and as you say the entrance sign just shows a parking sign with an arrow.
However where did you get the idea that you can only pay by Ringo?

There are four coin pay machines at the entrance and a typically rubbish UKPC sign that does not conform to the BPA COP (whatever they might say) but it does say "pay and display" with a breakdown of tarrifs.
Ringo also states that time can be bought by the hour.

UKPC will try to say you walked past the signs and machines on the way to the station, POPLA will agree and the "pay and display" instruction shows payment must be made within the grace period of entering.
This car park is twenty years behind the times, with no anpr or barriers it's my opinion is it's pretty obvious you can't pay when you think you can so how can they keep on top of it?

However that does not excuse the rubbish signage and if the muppets at UKPC want to pretend to enforce parking management they should spend some cash and bring the site up to date, but that won't trap people will it.

You must concentrate on the signage and be prepared for rebuttal of their usual BPA have audited the site, because either they haven't or the BPA are a bigger joke than we think!

http://!!!!!!/2xS3Vrk

mightbedave

fisherjim wrote: »

The signage (according to Streetview) at this car park is woefully inadequate and as you say the entrance sign just shows a parking sign with an arrow.
However where did you get the idea that you can only pay by Ringo?

The Streetview images are out of date. RingGo is now the only payment option. Here is a view of the entrance sign from the main road taken a couple of days later. You can just about see the pay and display machines are covered with black bags. They have signs on the other side saying RingGo is the only option.

xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b1VyOFlITkJpeHc/view?usp=sharing

Replace xxxxx with https

mightbedave

Can't post links so replace xxxxx with https

Close up of the entrance sign:

xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9bmx5TDUzUnlKNEE/view?usp=sharing

Main sign as viewed from where car was parked:

xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b2FlNjFiWGU4TUk/view?usp=sharing

Close up of main sign:

xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9eDV4aThmekZSTkk/view?usp=sharing

Sign from back of car park used in UKPC online evidence, although this is my photo as small text was not readable in their version:

xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9SjJSSThZZkJkZm8/view?usp=sharing

(RingGo is spelt wrong on this sign lol)

KeithP

mightbedave wrote: »

The Streetview images are out of date. RingGo is now the only payment option. Here is a view of the entrance sign from the main road taken a couple of days later. You can just about see the pay and display machines are covered with black bags. They have signs on the other side saying RingGo is the only option.

xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b1VyOFlITkJpeHc/view?usp=sharing

Replace xxxxx with https

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9b1VyOFlITkJpeHc/view

You need to get better pictures of the pay machines being covered, and pictures of that sign that says RingGo only.

mightbedave

fisherjim wrote: »

Ringo also states that time can be bought by the hour.

The incident took place at the weekend, so you are right that you can pay by the hour Mon-Fri but at the weekend paying for the whole day is the only option.

mightbedave

KeithP wrote: »

You need to get better pictures of the pay machines being covered, and pictures of that sign that says RingGo only.

Thanks, I'll get one when I am back there next week. This photo of the UKPC sign states to pay by Ringo (sic), but I'll get a better one because the machines all have big RingGo signs on the front.

xxxxx://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7_eCPr5UmQ9SjJSSThZZkJkZm8/view?usp=sharing