Finally Debt Free After 34 Years, But Still Need to Live Frugally

elizabethhull

The knotty problem of responsibility for self and helping out as a parent is an interesting one to discuss, and will doubtless vary from child to child.

I would like to put forward a personal anecdote.
When DD2 was 17 she did the DOE expedition, and they did a trek in Wales as a practise. She absolutely bricked it for a variety of reasons, and despite not being supposed to have phones, we got a sobbing call from her to come & collect her. She was never a timid or unfit child but this completely threw her, the level of physical activity meant that the others waited till she caught up, then having rested they went on, whilst she never got a rest. We assessed that it was one of those cases where you have to go, despite the several hours driving ! I warned her she would have to put up with the comments at school for having chickened out, and she accepted that. (although, perhaps in another post, I might explain why that didn't happen!)

Fast forward a few years, and she has been on a research ship to the South Atlantic, crossed Drake's Passage where the weather was so bad they had to heave to, and more recently holidayed on her own, ok these holidays were 'only' cruises. but I could never do it.

The point I'm making is that knowing your parents always have your back, and judicious help where other options are worse, doesn't necessarily make them unable to do things for themselves. I like to think our two are independent, even if the adventurousness levels are very different, and part of that is knowing that if all else failed we would be there.

jwil

It's an interesting discussion. My parents always taught us to be independent, and we were expected to assist with the household chores (washing up, keeping our rooms tidy and as we got older, cooking a meal). We weren't shuttled around once we left school, we were taught to make sure we had arrangements to get home (of course they would have been there in an emergency). I don't see an issue with picking up students and their belongings at the end of term though, that's not mollycoddling. We have always been expected to do things for ourselves and our parents were there for guidance and support, but they wouldn't do it for us.

I have been amazed at how much some parents do for their children. It's not a criticism as every situation is different and every parent knows their own child best. However, being with someone who had everything done for them and has never had to stand on their own two feet is really hard work and I am determined that my own children will not be like that.

Onebrokelady

Both my daughter have been brought up to to independent and are both very capable of looking after themselves,I also made sure they knew I would be there for them as much as I could be,I can't drive so never ferried them around,if they wanted to go somewhere they had to figure it out it for themselves
When my youngest went to uni the first time she hated it and within days wanted to come home, there were lots of tearful phone calls,I hardened my heart and made her stay for three months with the proviso of of after this time she still didn't like it she could come home,it was really hard and I think I cried as much as she did,when she did come home for weekend visits she was made to get the train under her one steam and once she had done this her confidence soared

I did however pick her up at the end of her year with all her stuff and help her clean her lodgings,my children have never been molly coddled I haven't had the time or money to do that,I have simply been the best parent I can be at any given moment

[Deleted User]

elizabethhull wrote: »

The knotty problem of responsibility for self and helping out as a parent is an interesting one to discuss, and will doubtless vary from child to child.

I would like to put forward a personal anecdote.
When DD2 was 17 she did the DOE expedition, and they did a trek in Wales as a practise. She absolutely bricked it for a variety of reasons, and despite not being supposed to have phones, we got a sobbing call from her to come & collect her. She was never a timid or unfit child but this completely threw her, the level of physical activity meant that the others waited till she caught up, then having rested they went on, whilst she never got a rest. We assessed that it was one of those cases where you have to go, despite the several hours driving ! I warned her she would have to put up with the comments at school for having chickened out, and she accepted that. (although, perhaps in another post, I might explain why that didn't happen!)

Fast forward a few years, and she has been on a research ship to the South Atlantic, crossed Drake's Passage where the weather was so bad they had to heave to, and more recently holidayed on her own, ok these holidays were 'only' cruises. but I could never do it.

The point I'm making is that knowing your parents always have your back, and judicious help where other options are worse, doesn't necessarily make them unable to do things for themselves. I like to think our two are independent, even if the adventurousness levels are very different, and part of that is knowing that if all else failed we would be there.

I found your anecdote very interesting, Elizabeth, and agree that our children do need to know that they can rely on us for help. It's good to know that your daughter has gone on to do adventurous things since but obviously at the time of the DOE problem she genuinely needed the help which thankfully you could provide. I'm glad it all worked out well.


I think the point Daisy made though was related to general day to day life not one-off experiences. I have to say, as a mother of 4 now grown-up children (2 daughters, 2 sons) that I agree with a lot of what Daisy said. Our children were loved to the nth degree, they were safe. secure and comfortable but were taught early in life that they had to take some responsibility for themselves and the well-being of each other. They all had simple daily/weekly chores to do which were well within their capabilities and which no one ever complained about doing. They all went to our local grammar school (our county still has them to this day) where the uniform policy was stricter than strict:eek:. They'd really have been hauled over the coals by prefects/staff if they'd gone to school looking even slightly dishevelled or creased. As for cat hairs or missing buttons, well, the mind boggles:rotfl:. I was perfectly willing to wash and iron their uniforms and do any repairs but they knew, even from an early age that they needed to take of and hang up their blazers etc as soon as they got home. They did it even when me or DH weren't home as, having cats, they knew they'd have loads of cat hairs to brush off before going to school if they didn't. This uniform regime had a good effect as I can recall very few occasions when any of them ever left their ordinary clothes strewn about the house or dropped on their bedroom floors. When they went away to university and we visited them, often without them having any time for a tidy-up first, they'd all kept up the habit of taking care of their clothes. If I'd gone round at home picking things up for them all the time and brushing their uniforms because of their carelessness I wouldn't have been doing them any favours at all.


I also made sure, before they were anywhere ready to fly the nest and go to University, that they knew the basics of cooking, cleaning and laundry. I certainly never had to muck out their student living accommodation and if I'd been there and seen it in a filthy mess I wouldn't have done it and they'd have had to pay the consequences because I knew they knew the right way of going on and if they chose to be slobs well so be it.


My oldest son is a serving soldier and was fortunate enough to go to Sandhurst. All officer cadets there had to supply their own ironing board. I remember seeing Prince William on TV arriving there with his:rotfl:. Goodness knows if William knew what to do with it but my DS certainly did.


I've gone on a bit but I feel strongly that a lot of parents do mollycoddle their offspring because they feel they are failing as parents if they don't. We all want the best for our children and would do anything to protect, care and support them but I genuinely feel that the very best thing we can do for our children is to fully prepare them for what lies ahead. Yes, we'll always be there at the drop of a hat if and when they ever need us but they shouldn't expect parents to do everything that they did for them when they were youngsters. That's not respecting themselves or their parents. We need to teach them to fly and then watch in wonder and pride, often with a tear in the eye, as they soar confidently into the unknown.

HairyHandofDartmoor

Gosh what a lot of responses on this topic . It's a very interesting debate about whether we mollycoddle our children nowadays. I suppose we do to some extent compared to the thirties, forties, fifties and sixties. I think my mum most definitely mollycoddled me but I was very grateful and loved her for it . I guess every parent knows what they're prepared to do for their children and as TF2 says there is a line they won't cross.

It is standard practice nowadays I think for parents to drop children off at uni in the autumn and pick them up at the end of the uni year in the summer. Students do tend to accumulate bits and bobs, but you want then to be happy at uni and feel at home there.
I'm aware that in collecting DS3 every holiday we are doing more than most, but his course is computer based, and he learns programming and needs some quite heavy duty software and a big screen for graphics etc. So he does need a desktop computer and monitor to do his course. As he has coursework to do over the holidays then he needs to get the computer home then too. It is our choice to do it but I know not all parents would be willing to do it. DS3 has also offered to pay our petrol costs, which we would take advantage of if we were short of money.

When I said that we're going to clean DS3's room and bathroom I am fully expecting DS3 to help us to do it.

However I know that DS3 is grateful and appreciates what we're doing to help him. One thing I should make more of perhaps is that DS3 is completely financially independant at uni. We have given him NO money for food, rent, or clothes since he's been there. He's has a full maintenance loan and has lived off that so I think he must be being quite frugal. He even has enough money left to pay the deposit on next year's house and a month's rent up front. So we are very proud of DS3 for living within his means :T (unlike me who had an overdraft and a credit card debt when I left uni ).

So whilst we do some trips to and fro to the uni to collect him and drop him off, he's not costing us any money apart from costs associated with that. I have friends who are paying rent for two student children and it's costing them £1000 a month :eek: :eek:. We can't afford to do that and I don't know if we would do it even if we could.

I'm always glad to hear everyone's different views so thank you everyone for your comments and stories .

And @OBL I love the story about DS2's cactus collection in the car :rotfl:.

[Deleted User]

I hope you'll be able to rest up a bit before your long drive tomorrow as I think today was a volunteering day as well as your lunchtime work.

I hope none of us have upset you in any way with the parenting discussion. It's good to have a frank exchange of opinions and just goes to show how many of us differ in our approach even among the few people who've contributed to the chat. No wonder the MPs can't get Brexit sorted, there are hundreds of them with conflicting views:rotfl:


I meant to ask before but forgot:o, but when DS takes over the house next year will he be able to live in it all year round if he wants and be able to leave his stuff there?.


It will be nice for 2 of your sons to be home for Father's Day next weekend. I hope they'll really treat your DH as he does so much for them.

WannabeFree

I don't think it's being too 'soft' and doing everything but then I come from a family on the total opposite. I left home at 13. My parents did/do nothing since then. I've stood on my own two feet and now as an adult I'm glad I made the choice I did. HOWEVER. I don't want my children to do what I did. I want them to be able to rely on me. Yes they will have to be independent too but I definitely don't want to follow in my parents footsteps. I want to be that parent who's door is open and my children's friends can feel at home. Know if they need help I will always try in any way I can - not even for my own children but for them too.

I think we all parent differently and what works for one won't work for someone else. As long as it's working for you that's great. Just because they 'can' do it themselves doesn't mean we shouldn't help where we can.

My smalls are obviously much smaller so I hope you don't mind me replying.

Hope the weekend goes well HH - Pick me up on the way I love cleaning :rotfl:

x

elizabethhull

Noella wrote: »

They all went to our local grammar school (our county still has them to this day) where the uniform policy was stricter than strict:eek:. They'd really have been hauled over the coals by prefects/staff if they'd gone to school looking even slightly dishevelled or creased. As for cat hairs or missing buttons, well, the mind boggles:rotfl:.
This uniform regime had a good effect...

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Following on from your comments about uniform, Noella, I can attest to the good habits engendered by membership of the Air Cadets (and presumably the other forces) !
Uniform inspection was first at every attendance, everything properly ironed, polished and brushed. A single stray hair meant points deducted for untidiness, badges sewn on millimetres out from the regulation position had to be re-done. We sourced the best ways to polish shoes from former serving friends. Far from finding all this irksome, DD2 found it somehow reassuring - you always knew where you were. You also got to do loads of really exciting stuff like gliding.

For several years we were sure she was going into the police or Air Force - and then I found I had a cuckoo in the nest - she turned into an accountant :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

HairyHandofDartmoor

Noella wrote: »

I hope you'll be able to rest up a bit before your long drive tomorrow as I think today was a volunteering day as well as your lunchtime work.

I hope none of us have upset you in any way with the parenting discussion. It's good to have a frank exchange of opinions and just goes to show how many of us differ in our approach even among the few people who've contributed to the chat. No wonder the MPs can't get Brexit sorted, there are hundreds of them with conflicting views:rotfl:


I meant to ask before but forgot:o, but when DS takes over the house next year will he be able to live in it all year round if he wants and be able to leave his stuff there?.


It will be nice for 2 of your sons to be home for Father's Day next weekend. I hope they'll really treat your DH as he does so much for them.

Thank you Noella .Of course you haven't upset me . No one has upset me.

I'm not sure if DS3 will be able to live in the house all year around. He's taking a year's tenancy so I suppose next summer he could stay there but I hope he comes home for the summer.

It will be lovely to have DS3 home for father's day . Unfortunately DS2 will still be abroad.

I did do my volunteering again today so well remembered .

WannabeFree wrote: »

I don't think it's being too 'soft' and doing everything but then I come from a family on the total opposite. I left home at 13. My parents did/do nothing since then. I've stood on my own two feet and now as an adult I'm glad I made the choice I did. HOWEVER. I don't want my children to do what I did. I want them to be able to rely on me. Yes they will have to be independent too but I definitely don't want to follow in my parents footsteps. I want to be that parent who's door is open and my children's friends can feel at home. Know if they need help I will always try in any way I can - not even for my own children but for them too.

I think we all parent differently and what works for one won't work for someone else. As long as it's working for you that's great. Just because they 'can' do it themselves doesn't mean we shouldn't help where we can.

My smalls are obviously much smaller so I hope you don't mind me replying.

Hope the weekend goes well HH - Pick me up on the way I love cleaning :rotfl:

x

Of course I don't mind you posting Wannabe . Children are children whatever age they are. You're a lovely mum to your DC and I'm sure they feel loved and supported and will be very grateful to you .

[Deleted User]

HairyHandofDartmoor wrote: »

I'm not sure if DS3 will be able to live in the house all year around. He's taking a year's tenancy so I suppose next summer he could stay there but I hope he comes home for the summer.

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I'm sure he would rather be at home with his family during the summer:)

I remember when I was in my first year at Uni and in Halls. They used them for accommodation for people attending conferences etc during the vacs and we had to clear every last thing out of our rooms at the end of every single term:(. We didn't have the same amount of things as we did in flats or houses but there was still plenty. We could store a lot of it in the Hall's luggage room if we boxed it up so it didn't all have to be taken home every few months. I never left anything valuable there though and my big and heavy record player and box of vinyl records, plus my transistor radio went wherever I went:rotfl: