UC, JSA and ESA

Dullville

In a full service universal credit area.
My friend is on CB JSA with the disability premium top up so she receives £243 per fortnight.
Obviously she has health issues hence the disability top up, she's on DLA care(high) and mobility (low)
She's is struggling with health at the moment and when she signed on last Monday, the chap at the job centre saw she was not in good shape and advised her to get signed off and move on to UC.
The advisor was unsure if she would be worse off financially as UC was so complicated and thought she could apply for New Style ESA and still receive the same amount of money.
He advised her to google it and see what she thought!
I have googled it with my friend and I'm not sure if the advise given was correct, we couldn't even work out if she could apply for new style ESA or just UC.
During her 6 months of unemployment she has had 1 period of extended sick for 10 weeks as she had been sectioned as was in hospital.
So if there are any UC experts who can shed any light on what the best route to go down it would be much appreciated.
Does the disability premium apply on UC and ESA and is there options to work part time on UC and claim WTC.
She is seeing a disability advisor at the job centre next week to try and help her.
Thanks.

annandale

You cant be on UC and claim working tax credits, There is an element of wtc built into UC. Im not sure what you mean by new style ESA. Whether you get a premium on UC will depend on what category you fall in.

These are the guidance notes

You will get one of these if you satisfy the Work Capability Assessment (WCA). See our Universal Credit - Work Capability Assessment information.

You can get either the:

limited capability for work element (LCW) £126.11 per month (From 3 April 2017 the limited capability for work element will not be available to claimants who claim UC on or after this date); or
limited capability for work related activity element (LCWRA) £318.76 per month
If you are making a joint claim and you both have LCW or LCWRA, your award will only include one element:

If one or both of you have LCWRA you will receive that element
If you both have LCW you will receive that element
If you earn more than the equivalent of 16 hours a week, paid at the National Minimum Wage rate, you will not be able to get either of the capability for work elements unless you are also getting Disability Living Allowance or Personal Independence Payment.

You may have to wait three months for your LCW or LCWRA element to be added on. Though there are some instances where it can be added on straight away such as if you are terminally ill or you were entitled to one of the Employment and Support Allowance components immediately prior to your Universal Credit claim.

Personally if shes struggling with her health so badly right now why is she considering part time work?

Alice_Holt

UC does not carry the disability premiums. If she moves to UC she will lose this money.
The basic element of UC is £318pm (£73.10 *52/12).

UC is fraught with difficulties and administrative errors.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-citizens-advice-works/media/press-releases/citizens-advice-calls-for-universal-credit-rollout-to-be-paused-as-research-reveals-people-left-facing-financial-difficulty1/

The use of an online benefit calculator may be instructive -
https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/AboutYou

She would be best getting advice from her local CAB / advice agency.
Your friend's case is quite complicated. For instance:
CB JSA is only paid for 6 months - after that she will be means tested for IB JSA it is likely (I think) she would then be moved to UC in a full service area
https://www.welfare-benefits-unit.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/What-triggers-a-claim-for-Universal-Credit-in-a-full-service-area.pdf;
Whether she can claim new style ESA (i.e contribution based ESA) is likely to depend on her NI contributions in the last 2 tax years;
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-we-provide-advice/advice/


Is she getting HB?

Dullville

annandale wrote: »

You cant be on UC and claim working tax credits, There is an element of wtc built into UC. Im not sure what you mean by new style ESA. Whether you get a premium on UC will depend on what category you fall in.

These are the guidance notes

You will get one of these if you satisfy the Work Capability Assessment (WCA). See our Universal Credit - Work Capability Assessment information.

You can get either the:

limited capability for work element (LCW) £126.11 per month (From 3 April 2017 the limited capability for work element will not be available to claimants who claim UC on or after this date); or
limited capability for work related activity element (LCWRA) £318.76 per month
If you are making a joint claim and you both have LCW or LCWRA, your award will only include one element:

If one or both of you have LCWRA you will receive that element
If you both have LCW you will receive that element
If you earn more than the equivalent of 16 hours a week, paid at the National Minimum Wage rate, you will not be able to get either of the capability for work elements unless you are also getting Disability Living Allowance or Personal Independence Payment.

You may have to wait three months for your LCW or LCWRA element to be added on. Though there are some instances where it can be added on straight away such as if you are terminally ill or you were entitled to one of the Employment and Support Allowance components immediately prior to your Universal Credit claim.

Personally if shes struggling with her health so badly right now why is she considering part time work?

Her condition fluctuates, but getting a job will help with her health even if it's part time.

Dullville

Alice_Holt wrote: »

UC does not carry the disability premiums. If she moves to UC she will lose this money.
The basic element of UC is £318pm (£73.10 *52/12).

UC is fraught with difficulties and administrative errors.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-citizens-advice-works/media/press-releases/citizens-advice-calls-for-universal-credit-rollout-to-be-paused-as-research-reveals-people-left-facing-financial-difficulty1/

The use of an online benefit calculator may be instructive -
https://benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/AboutYou

She would be best getting advice from her local CAB / advice agency.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-we-provide-advice/advice/
Does her JC adviser want her off his books regardless of the financial cost to her?

Is she getting HB?

Thanks for the links.
Yes I definitely think the advisor wants her off his books!
No she isn't getting HB.

annandale

If she gets the payment of 318 is this not added to her basic UC payment?

The notes seems to suggest this

Standard allowance
Your circumstances Monthly standard allowance
Single and under 25 £251.77
Single and 25 or over £317.82
In a couple and you’re both under 25 £395.20 (for you both)
In a couple and either of you are 25 or over £498.89 (for you both)

If you have a disability or health condition or care for an adult who does
How much you’ll get Extra monthly amount
If you have limited capability for work or work-related activity £318.76

https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/what-youll-get

This link suggests that she would get an extra payment for having a disabliity. The 126.11 payment doesnt get paid to those who claimed after 3 april this year but people do still get the other payment if they are in the limited capability for work or work related activity as far as Im aware.

epitome

Dullville wrote: »

In a full service universal credit area.
My friend is on CB JSA with the disability premium top up so she receives £243 per fortnight.

She is on JSA C & IB

Appears to be getting disability prem £32.55, Enhanced Dis Prem £15.90 & 73.10 personal allowance.
Which means she is not getting the Severe Dis Prem...£62.45 per week.
Does she live alone?
Does anyone claim carer's allowance to care for her?
If she does live alone and does not have anyone caring for her, she should ask JSA for Severe Dis premium
to be applied to her claim, it should be backdated to the beginning of her JSA claim.
And she can apply for it for any previous (now closed) claims to benefit such as
JSA(IB), IS or ESA(IR).... £62.45 per week.




As it is UC full service area...........
only UC will be available for the income related side of the claim -
which is the part that gets premiums if they are available...
and Alice says they are not available on UC.

She can also claim ESA Conts New style....
But there are no premiums on ESA Conts, would only get £73.10 per week,
same as the UC would pay her.
and if she passes to the WRAG group she would not get the £29 for the WRAG,
would remain on only £73.10 even if she passes the test.
And would only get ESA Conts if worked sufficiently within tax years
2014/2015 or 2015/2016

Dullville

Thanks for all the replies.
How would she end her JSA claim and apply for UC ?
Would she need a fit note to go on UC as her GP would sign her off as being unfit for work if she requested that.

epitome

Can you answer my two questions?
and another question, what date did she start her claim to JSA C from?

Another thing she needs to know is that she can stay on JSA for 13 weeks with a sick note,
called an Extended Period of Sickness. but she must not have already had an EPS this year
(I believe it is a benefit year). If on EPS she does not need to sign on for 13 weeks.

She would close JSA, and then on the day after JSA is paying her up to
she would make a claim by phone to UC from the day after JSA paid to.
Or she could try to claim UC online.
Once on UC she will never be allowed to go back on to JSA IB, all those premiums will be gone for ever.

Dullville

epitome wrote: »

Can you answer my two questions?
and another question, what date did she start her claim to JSA C from?

Another thing she needs to know is that she can stay on JSA for 13 weeks with a sick note,
called an Extended Period of Sickness. but she must not have already had an EPS this year
(I believe it is a benefit year). If on EPS she does not need to sign on for 13 weeks.

She would close JSA, and then on the day after JSA is paying her up to
she would make a claim by phone to UC from the day after JSA paid to.
Or she could try to claim UC online.
Once on UC she will never be allowed to go back on to JSA IB, all those premiums will be gone for ever.

Her claim started for JSA on the 20th April, she has already had a period of EPS (10 weeks ) due to be hospitalised during this claim. Prior to being unemployed this year she had worked continuously for the previous 10 years full time.
Will she just have to ring her job centre to close her claim?
What about the extra payment annandale mentions (£318) if you have a disability to be paid extra with your normal UC payment?
It's all so confusing!

Alice_Holt

Dullville wrote: »

What about the extra payment annandale mentions (£318) if you have a disability to be paid extra with your normal UC payment?
It's all so confusing!

This is only paid if she is assessed as having limited capability for work related activity element (LCWRA) following a WCA (see post 2). It is not paid because of a disability (or the receipt of DLA / PIP)
This is equivalent of the Support Group of ESA.
Here are the criteria for the additional £318:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors
https://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/money-issues-benefits-employment/work-capability-assessment/what-next
"The DWP will then have to assess if you are a “substantial risk” or not. They will look at things such as:
if you have current plans for suicide,
if you self-harm,
if you have been in hospital under the Mental Health Act in the last 12 months, or had a voluntary stay in a psychiatric unit in the last 6 months,
if you have a current care plan from secondary mental health services, or
if the DWP have assessed you as being vulnerable to relapse.
If they decide you are at “substantial risk”, then they may award you ESA even if they would normally think you can work. To prove this you will need a letter from your health care professional such as a doctor, Community Psychiatric Nurse (CPN) or social worker."
For LCWRA Reg 31 would apply, should there be a substantial risk to health if she were to participate in work-focused activities.

If she has been receiving CB JSA since 20 April then her CB 6 months limit is coming to an end in less than a month and is likely (I think) to move to IB UC.
As she is moving from JSA to UC it is likely she will be expected to fulfil the full claimant commitment. She needs to make her UC work coach aware of her health difficulties to try to limit her work commitment (and lessen the possibility of sanctions) and complete a UC50 form.

If she has NI contributions in the last 2 tax years, It may indeed be worth considering a "new-style" ESA claim (when her CB JSA claim expires), as she will not be expected to job seek pending the WCA (and may not have such a long wait for initial payment as UC). Unfortunately it is likely once her CB ESA time period has expired she will be worse off financially.
I would strongly suggest she gets advice on her options from her local advice centre.