UC, JSA and ESA

Dullville

Alice_Holt wrote: »

This is only paid if she is assessed as having limited capability for work related activity element (LCWRA) following a WCA (see post 2). It is not paid because of a disability (or the receipt of DLA / PIP)
This is equivalent of the Support Group of ESA.
Here are the criteria for the additional £318:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/1353-support-group-descriptors
https://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/money-issues-benefits-employment/work-capability-assessment/what-next
"The DWP will then have to assess if you are a “substantial risk” or not. They will look at things such as:
if you have current plans for suicide,
if you self-harm,
if you have been in hospital under the Mental Health Act in the last 12 months, or had a voluntary stay in a psychiatric unit in the last 6 months,
if you have a current care plan from secondary mental health services, or
if the DWP have assessed you as being vulnerable to relapse.
If they decide you are at “substantial risk”, then they may award you ESA even if they would normally think you can work. To prove this you will need a letter from your health care professional such as a doctor, Community Psychiatric Nurse (CPN) or social worker."
For LCWRA Reg 31 would apply, should there be a substantial risk to health if she were to participate in work-focused activities.

If she has been receiving CB JSA since 20 April then her CB 6 months limit is coming to an end in less than a month and is likely (I think) to move to IB UC.
As she is moving from JSA to UC it is likely she will be expected to fulfil the full claimant commitment. She needs to make her UC work coach aware of her health difficulties to try to limit her work commitment (and lessen the possibility of sanctions) and complete a UC50 form.

If she has NI contributions in the last 2 tax years, It may indeed be worth considering a "new-style" ESA claim (when her CB JSA claim expires), as she will not be expected to job seek pending the WCA (and may not have such a long wait for initial payment as UC). Unfortunately it is likely once her CB ESA time period has expired she will be worse off financially.
I would strongly suggest she gets advice on her options from her local advice centre.

Thanks Alice.

epitome

epitome wrote: »

Does she live alone?
Does anyone claim carer's allowance to care for her?

Can you answer these 2 questions?

OK, already had an EPS, she could ask JC if she has any EPS period remaining like 3 weeks?

£318 is what she would get on UC this is just £73.10 per week.

She would get the same amount on ESA Conts New Style - for up to 1 year or until she has her medical assessment

As she claimed JSA Conts from April this year (and was successful), she will qualify for ESA Conts New Syle.
If she claims ESA C NS she will get £73.10 per week and all of this will be deducted out of her UC award of £73.10 meaning she will end up with:
ESA C NS £73.10
UC £0.00


*please answer my 2 questions.
I advise, if at all possible, STAY ON JSA

epitome

Alice_Holt wrote: »

This is only paid if she is assessed as having limited capability for work related activity element (LCWRA) following a WCA (see post 2). It is not paid because of a disability (or the receipt of DLA / PIP)
This is equivalent of the Support Group of ESA.
Here are the criteria for the additional £318:

How do you work that out?

£318 per calandar month is surely the basic rate of UC the equivalent of £73.10 (ESA or JSA) per week

Surely UC claimants in the Support Gropup don't get
the equivalent of £73.10 + 73.38 when they go into support group? That's £21 more that ESA SG pays.

Alice_Holt

epitome wrote: »

How do you work that out?.

This sets out the additional elements of UC:
https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit/Additional-Elements-of-Universal-Credit

"Limited Capability for Work Element

You will get one of these if you satisfy the Work Capability Assessment (WCA).

You can get either the:
- limited capability for work element (LCW) £126.11 per month (From 3 April 2017 the limited capability for work element will not be available to claimants who claim UC on or after this date); or
- limited capability for work related activity element (LCWRA) £318.76 per month
If you are making a joint claim and you both have LCW or LCWRA, your award will only include one element:

If one or both of you have LCWRA you will receive that element
If you both have LCW you will receive that element
If you earn more than the equivalent of 16 hours a week, paid at the National Minimum Wage rate, you will not be able to get either of the capability for work elements unless you are also getting Disability Living Allowance or Personal Independence Payment.

You may have to wait three months for your LCW or LCWRA element to be added on. Though there are some instances where it can be added on straight away such as if you are terminally ill or you were entitled to one of the Employment and Support Allowance components immediately prior to your Universal Credit claim."

I can't give you a rationale for the thought process behind UC, I can only reference the various UC elements and how they may apply.

Do bear in mind that some in receipt of ESA who naturally migrate to UC will be financially disadvantaged, as an example:
In the ESA SG (IB or CB & IB) and in receipt of PIP Daily Living and therefore eligible for the SDP premium.
Currently: ESA £109.45 + £15.45 EDP + £62.45 SDP = £187.35pw
Under UC: Basic Allowance £317.82+limited capability for work related activity element (LCWRA) £318.76 per month = £636.58 (equivalent to £146.90pw).

My likening it to the SG of ESA related to the SG / LCWRA criteria (not financial equivalent outcomes).

Dullville

epitome wrote: »

Can you answer these 2 questions?

OK, already had an EPS, she could ask JC if she has any EPS period remaining like 3 weeks?

£318 is what she would get on UC this is just £73.10 per week.

She would get the same amount on ESA Conts New Style - for up to 1 year or until she has her medical assessment

As she claimed JSA Conts from April this year (and was successful), she will qualify for ESA Conts New Syle.
If she claims ESA C NS she will get £73.10 per week and all of this will be deducted out of her UC award of £73.10 meaning she will end up with:
ESA C NS £73.10
UC £0.00


*please answer my 2 questions.
I advise, if at all possible, STAY ON JSA

Hiya Epitome,
In answer to your questions ,
No one receives carers allowance for her, and her living arrangements are very complicated as she lives separately in her ex partners house!

Dullville

Epitome and Alice are 2 of this boards experts on benefits and they have different views on my questions..
What chance have the rest of us got to understand the minefield of Universal credit!
Thanks for you advice though.

Alice_Holt

Dullville wrote: »

Epitome and Alice are 2 of this boards experts on benefits and they have different views on my questions..
What chance have the rest of us got to understand the minefield of Universal credit!
Thanks for you advice though.

I think we are saying the same thing (but perhaps in different ways, and from slightly different perspectives).
Your friend would currently be financially better off staying on JSA, than applying for UC or New style ESA.

However, her time on CB JSA is limited to 6 months.
After that she will be means tested and if eligible to claim IB JSA, would migrate to UC (as she is in a full service area).
Once her CB JSA claim has ended, I think she would be better (and assuming her NI contributions allow) to claim New style ESA. I suggest this as she would not be required to job search and therefore have less risk of incurring UC sanctions.

I would however strongly suggest she gets accredited advice from her local CAB, because as you say UC is a minefield!
Please view my comments on UC as guidance only. This is one reason why I try to include links, so OP's can do their own checking / research.

Best wishes.

epitome

Dullville,
When it comes to a UC question, listen to Alice. I don't know much about UC.
I only claim to know about ESA.

My opinion, and this is only an opinion because it relates to JSA, is that she is already on JSA IB
(she has a disability premium -which is only paid on JSA IB), she has within that JSA Conts.
JSA conts will expire after 6 months.
I don't see any reason why, when JSA Conts expires she would move on to UC...
she already has JSA IB, so in my opinion she will stay on JSA IB with her premium, obviously has to keep looking for work.


Re: living alone

They live under the same roof but are seperated, -if she has not already done so-
I would ask JSA to apply for Severe Disability Premium
while she still has her JSA claim open. It won't do any harm.

Where it asks "do you live alone" she should obviously explain the situation.
Personally I don't think she will qualify because they do live in the same house,
and there is no individual tennancy agreements that seperate them.
But once requested a decision will be made
and then she can ask to speak to the Decision Maker if they refuse SDP.

Alice_Holt

epitome wrote: »

My opinion, and this is only an opinion because it relates to JSA, is that she is already on JSA IB
(she has a disability premium -which is only paid on JSA IB), she has within that JSA Conts.
JSA conts will expire after 6 months.
I don't see any reason why, when JSA Conts expires she would move on to UC...
she already has JSA IB, so in my opinion she will stay on JSA IB with her premium, obviously has to keep looking for work.

That's a good point. I missed that.
If she was just on CB JSA then she would move to UC after 6 months (if entitled to an IB benefit)- see:
https://www.welfare-benefits-unit.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/What-triggers-a-claim-for-Universal-Credit-in-a-full-service-area.pdf (Bottom of page 3).
But getting a IB top up to her CB JSA she may well be able to stay on JSA (as already assessed for IB eligibility).

Dullville

epitome wrote: »

Dullville,
When it comes to a UC question, listen to Alice. I don't know much about UC.
I only claim to know about ESA.

My opinion, and this is only an opinion because it relates to JSA, is that she is already on JSA IB
(she has a disability premium -which is only paid on JSA IB), she has within that JSA Conts.
JSA conts will expire after 6 months.
I don't see any reason why, when JSA Conts expires she would move on to UC...
she already has JSA IB, so in my opinion she will stay on JSA IB with her premium, obviously has to keep looking for work.


Re: living alone

They live under the same roof but are seperated, -if she has not already done so-
I would ask JSA to apply for Severe Disability Premium
while she still has her JSA claim open. It won't do any harm.

Where it asks "do you live alone" she should obviously explain the situation.
Personally I don't think she will qualify because they do live in the same house,
and there is no individual tennancy agreements that seperate them.
But once requested a decision will be made
and then she can ask to speak to the Decision Maker if they refuse SDP.

Hi Epitome.
Just to update you she has done exactly as you have suggested and applied for the SDP and enclosed a covering letter and sent proof of legal separation so she is awaiting a reply.
She sent this off over 2 weeks ago, is this normal not to even had an acknowledgement by now?