Jacob Ress Mogg - next PM?

dunstonh

I quite like JRM. He has his convictions. Sticks with them even in areas where it would be easier for him to do otherwise. Whilst at the same time he makes it clear that gay marriage and abortion rules are not going to change to suit him and that he would have no intention of changing them.

He is also totally correct by saying that we bend over backwards to support every other religion other than Christianity.

I personally feel he has just ended any chance of him becoming PM but saying that, I don't think there was any chance to begin with as his accent would be held against him.

He cultivates a pantomime Lord Snooty persona

See what I mean. Just because he is well spoken and educated, that will be held against him too.

Thrugelmir

fromtheshires wrote: »

The problem is regression. The Conservatives have been showing themselves as a progressive party trying to engage with the youth and be seen more of the peoples party.

Elections are won in the middle ground. Not by pandering to vocal minority fringe groups.

fromtheshires

Shaka_Zulu wrote: »

I would gather from this thread (and others on MSE) that if you don't subscribe to the groupthink on things like gay marriage etc you are somehow a lesser person!

Quite a sad state of affairs really.

You have to go with the times and society im afraid Shaka. Would this have made the news years ago? No. Why? Because the world held different views back then. Times change and those who want to stay relevent to society need to change as well.

As a gay man who has fought hard for recognition, stood up to years of abuse for my orientation, donned a uniform to help defend those who have no voice, a lifelong conservative voter, it was joyous marring my husband and to finally be equal in society and the law. To then read and hear about someone vying for leadership of one of the only two parties that have any chance in britain openly stating this is galling. I have opinions that arent popular, for example I beleive in assisted suicide if appropriate, however would never use religion as a reason to be against something, especially when science shows to the contarty to hundreds of other species on earth. Religion and politics should be separate, especially for those wanthing to repesent the country which is multi faith and secular.

fromtheshires

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Elections are won in the middle ground. Not by pandering to vocal minority fringe groups.

I would hardly call 10% of the population as a vocal minority fringe group myself...

How many women have had to terminate a pregnancy because carrying on would put thm at serious risk or kill them (eptopic etc) again not a vocal minority fringe group

westernpromise

fromtheshires wrote: »

You have to go with the times and society im afraid Shaka. Would this have made the news years ago? No. Why? Because the world held different views back then. Times change and those who want to stay relevent to society need to change as well.

As a gay man who has fought hard for recognition, stood up to years of abuse for my orientation, donned a uniform to help defend those who have no voice, a lifelong conservative voter, it was joyous marring my husband and to finally be equal in society and the law. To then read and hear about someone vying for leadership of one of the only two parties that have any chance in britain openly stating this is galling. I have opinions that arent popular, for example I beleive in assisted suicide if appropriate, however would never use religion as a reason to be against something, especially when science shows to the contarty to hundreds of other species on earth. Religion and politics should be separate, especially for those wanthing to repesent the country which is multi faith and secular.

If you think people adhere to a religion to "use religion as a reason to be against something", you have misunderstood religion completely. Well, certainly the Catholic religion.

George Orwell once famously contrasted Catholics with Communists, noting that the key difference between them is that Communist dogma is completely unstable and always likely to reverse itself at the drop of a hat. Thus in 1938 a Russian Communist (or Western sympathiser with Communism) was required to think Nazism the most heinous evil in the world, but after the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact in 1939, the Nazis were now Communism's allies and the western allies were the hideous evil. When Germany invaded Russia in 1941 suddenly Nazism was the hideous evil once again, and the West were the allies, but upon the defeat of Germany in 1945 the West became the hideous evil once more.

Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia, as Orwell later put it, but Catholicism could not be more different - its adherents have believed the same tenets for 2,000 years and they aren't about to flip and endorse gay marriage overnight because a bunch of atheist liberals have decided to do so in the last ten years.

JRM is simply going along with what his church tells him. It is illegal in this country for a religious movement to stand for political office, but in the Islamic world, the doctrine is that if you've got Islam you don't need political parties because the Koran tells you everything you need to know; hence its goal is theocracy. If your concern is with an unhealthy bleeding of religion into politics, that is where you should probably be more concerned.

Filo25

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Elections are won in the middle ground. Not by pandering to vocal minority fringe groups.

Personally I think you're being a bit harsh on Roman Catholics there, Thrugelmir.

LHW99

I have always wondered why civil partnerships shouldn't have been made available for heterosexual couples who were not religious.

Thrugelmir

andrewf75 wrote: »

Maybe with Rees Mogg leading the Tories and Corbyn leading Labour, the time will come for a sensible centre ground party to rise up in the way of Macron in France. Our politics needs a shake up from the old two party system especially given that there is more difference within both parties than between the mainstream of both.

Macron is in power almost by default. Like Trump. He is full of words. Change maybe a little tougher to implement though. Already his poll ratings are plummenting. The novelty appear to be wearing off rather quickly. His views on how other countries should manage their affairs, isn't going down well either.

Shaka_Zulu

One might not have agreed with Margaret Thatcher but I honestly think she was the last PM to stick with her convictions, the rest since then have all been rather wishy washy.

Perhaps JRM will never lead the Conservative party but he at least has a backbone and doesn't waver, I think that is something we want in a leader of the country.

Those of a left leaning persuasion doth protest too much and all I can deduce from that is they are rather worried.

Herzlos

westernpromise wrote: »

If JRM is a Catholic, he has no option but to oppose gay marriage. If he didn't, he couldn't be a Catholic. It would be precisely like being in the Ku Klux Klan but also believing in diversity..

I'm pretty sure the current pope was in favour of gay marriage, so I'm not sure the good Catholic approach stands.