Advice regarding zero hour contracts.

Chucky1234

Hi all.

I have a full time job during the week which I work 9-5:30. I wanted to boost my income so in addition to this I joined a care company on a zero hours contract.

When I commenced employment, I had to fill in an availability timetable which I did - to which work would be allocated to me based on that. This was about 6 weeks ago, so far, so good.

Now I am unable to work on Wednesday evenings (which was marked as available on the timetable previously) so I called them up two weeks ago to tell them my circumstances have changed and I can no longer work Wednesday evenings, however I did say I would continue to work the Wednesdays I have already been rota'd in for (the rota is done about 2 weeks in advance, so two Wednesdays). I spoke to one of the supervisors and she said she would speak to the manager about it when she is back from annual leave.

Fast forward two weeks until today and I have had a call from the manager saying she is unable to authorise my availability change as she needs me to work on Wednesdays. I once again stated I am unable to work on Wednesdays and part of the reason I took the job was it was because a zero hour contract which allows me the flexibility. As it stands I am waiting to hear back from her email.

My query is this; it was my understanding that a zero hour contract places no obligation on the employer to offer the employee any work, nor does it place any obligation on the employee to accept any work offered by the employer. Should I be able to change my availability relatively freely?

A further query; if, for example I have a work meal come up next Tuesday which I am currently rota'd in for - should I be allowed to tell them and have the day off seeing as I am on a zero hour contract and I have told them with plenty of time? There was a similar situation where my work was cancelled the day before I was meant to work with the explanation 'we had overbooked' so surely I should be able to?

I must also add - although usually the rota is done two weeks in advance - we only see around the next 5 days and even if it shows you are not working on a certain day, they try and spring work on you last minute if things change if it is in your availability without asking you first.

I just wanted peoples thoughts on this situation? The current situation almost feels like I am 'on call' when I did not expect it to be like this, I thought zero hour contracts granted me much more flexibility than this. I welcome all thoughts.

jobbingmusician

I think zero hour contracts ARE supposed to offer this flexibility. However, the problem is that the flexibility is on both sides (ha!) - so unfair employers tend to respond to anything they don't like by simply not offering any more work, leaving you in a difficult position. And this does sound like an unfair employer.....

ohreally

Perhaps the employer simply wants their cake and to be eating it. You may find in future that you get zero hours offered.

stuartJo1989

Well, you clearly marked that you were available and it is a bit of a douche move to try and force through a change after only 6 weeks....

This could go either way to be honest. You could either:

- Force through this change and have them accommodate it.

- End up out of the job when they stop offering you work.

It will probably boil down to supply and demand; do they need you on the books or can they readily hire someone to replace you?

I used to manage staff/rotas and you were the pain-in-the-!!!! sort of employee... Lots of taking but not much giving. I preferred the employees who stuck by the hours they put themselves down for, who didn't talk about having days off after a staff meal and who didn't want to debate the ins and outs of what a "zero hour contract" means...

Chucky1234

jobbingmusician wrote: »

I think zero hour contracts ARE supposed to offer this flexibility. However, the problem is that the flexibility is on both sides (ha!) - so unfair employers tend to respond to anything they don't like by simply not offering any more work, leaving you in a difficult position. And this does sound like an unfair employer.....

Yeah that was my thoughts exactly. I did previously change my availability - when I started I put I was available every weekend aslong as I had a balance there i.e. I am not working every single hour on every weekend but I am available every weekend if needed. What happened was I was working every hour of every weekend so I changed my availability to one weekend on and one off. This was when they cancelled my work the day before as they 'overbooked' so I'm fairly certain that was related.

I guess I don't particularly need this job so if I weren't offered any work that would be fine so I am in a stronger position than if this was my main job. I guess I'm just looking for the law on it so I can challenge her about it if need be.

scd3scd4

Chucky1234 wrote: »

Hi all.

I have a full time job during the week which I work 9-5:30. I wanted to boost my income so in addition to this I joined a care company on a zero hours contract.

When I commenced employment, I had to fill in an availability timetable which I did - to which work would be allocated to me based on that. This was about 6 weeks ago, so far, so good.

Now I am unable to work on Wednesday evenings (which was marked as available on the timetable previously) so I called them up two weeks ago to tell them my circumstances have changed and I can no longer work Wednesday evenings, however I did say I would continue to work the Wednesdays I have already been rota'd in for (the rota is done about 2 weeks in advance, so two Wednesdays). I spoke to one of the supervisors and she said she would speak to the manager about it when she is back from annual leave.

Fast forward two weeks until today and I have had a call from the manager saying she is unable to authorise my availability change as she needs me to work on Wednesdays. I once again stated I am unable to work on Wednesdays and part of the reason I took the job was it was because a zero hour contract which allows me the flexibility. As it stands I am waiting to hear back from her email.

My query is this; it was my understanding that a zero hour contract places no obligation on the employer to offer the employee any work, nor does it place any obligation on the employee to accept any work offered by the employer. Should I be able to change my availability relatively freely?

A further query; if, for example I have a work meal come up next Tuesday which I am currently rota'd in for - should I be allowed to tell them and have the day off seeing as I am on a zero hour contract and I have told them with plenty of time? There was a similar situation where my work was cancelled the day before I was meant to work with the explanation 'we had overbooked' so surely I should be able to?

I must also add - although usually the rota is done two weeks in advance - we only see around the next 5 days and even if it shows you are not working on a certain day, they try and spring work on you last minute if things change if it is in your availability without asking you first.

I just wanted peoples thoughts on this situation? The current situation almost feels like I am 'on call' when I did not expect it to be like this, I thought zero hour contracts granted me much more flexibility than this. I welcome all thoughts.

Unfortunately they want it all ways. You are being used, you have to decide by how much and at what price you want the job. I agree they may cut your hours to punish you but if you say you will leave. The Wednesdays will still not be covered.

Chucky1234

stuartJo1989 wrote: »

Well, you clearly marked that you were available and it is a bit of a douche move to try and force through a change after only 6 weeks....

This could go either way to be honest. You could either:

- Force through this change and have them accommodate it.

- End up out of the job when they stop offering you work.

It will probably boil down to supply and demand; do they need you on the books or can they readily hire someone to replace you?

I used to manage staff/rotas and you were the pain-in-the-!!!! sort of employee... Lots of taking but not much giving. I preferred the employees who stuck by the hours they put themselves down for, who didn't talk about having days off after a staff meal and who didn't want to debate the ins and outs of what a "zero hour contract" means...

Explain how my circumstances changing is a douche move? This wasn't something I could predict and I made them aware of this as soon as possible.

As for 'lots of taking but not much giving' I disagree. I have helped them out by covering shifts last minute on my weekend off, travelling longer distances than required in my contract amongst other things, so don't be so judgemental.

scd3scd4

stuartJo1989 wrote: »

Well, you clearly marked that you were available and it is a bit of a douche move to try and force through a change after only 6 weeks....

This could go either way to be honest. You could either:

- Force through this change and have them accommodate it.

- End up out of the job when they stop offering you work.

It will probably boil down to supply and demand; do they need you on the books or can they readily hire someone to replace you?

I used to manage staff/rotas and you were the pain-in-the-!!!! sort of employee... Lots of taking but not much giving. I preferred the employees who stuck by the hours they put themselves down for, who didn't talk about having days off after a staff meal and who didn't want to debate the ins and outs of what a "zero hour contract" means...

Don't see a lot of giving myself from this company. If people want others to put days aside and then cancel work because they don't know how to organise themselves. You would be a pain in my XXXX. Its a zero hour contract for crying out loud. You think people want to give up friends and family for the scraps you may or may no give them.


My workmates wife is a home help and met someone similar. She told them to poke it and went and worked for a better company. For more money and better travelling expenses.


Tell them politely things have changed. If they don't like it then they can find someone to do all the Wednesday. If its that easy then what's all the drama about you swapping.

scd3scd4

My mum was a home help for maybe 20 years for the council. She enjoyed it for the most part as if was all local. By that I mean she walked and she made mostly friends. However one thing she will say today is how much she allowed herself to be used by both the council and many of the people she cared for. She told me....."boy I wished I had said no more often".

Chucky1234

Yeah what I do is home help. They have a pool of employees which they allocate calls to based on their availability. For the most part I have been fairly happy with my hours there however as I said, when I started I thought a zero hour contract was a lot more flexible on my side than they are allowing it to be.

If something comes up on a Friday night in 3 weeks for example, I'm of the opinion that if I let them know in good time and not a few days before that I can't work it, they should have a pool of employees who are available to work on that Friday who they can allocate the work to. If that means that employee retains that bit of work for Fridays going forward then thats understandable and I would wait until further work is available to be allocated to me again.

Personally - that's how I think zero hour contracts should work so there is fairness for both parties but of course I understand in reality that's not how they work and the employer can punish an employee by reducing their hours completely. It's a shame because if the employer was 'fairer' I think it would've worked well.

I must also add I have had many other carers tell me of similar situations where they have been punished by the same manager for changing their hours/calling in sick etc.

scd3scd4

Chucky1234 wrote: »

Yeah what I do is home help. They have a pool of employees which they allocate calls to based on their availability. For the most part I have been fairly happy with my hours there however as I said, when I started I thought a zero hour contract was a lot more flexible on my side than they are allowing it to be.

If something comes up on a Friday night in 3 weeks for example, I'm of the opinion that if I let them know in good time and not a few days before that I can't work it, they should have a pool of employees who are available to work on that Friday who they can allocate the work to. If that means that employee retains that bit of work for Fridays going forward then thats understandable and I would wait until further work is available to be allocated to me again.

Personally - that's how I think zero hour contracts should work so there is fairness for both parties but of course I understand in reality that's not how they work and the employer can punish an employee by reducing their hours completely. It's a shame because if the employer was 'fairer' I think it would've worked well.

I must also add I have had many other carers tell me of similar situations where they have been punished by the same manager for changing their hours/calling in sick etc.

For what its worth you sound pretty balanced to me and fair.


A zero hour contract is not you saying you are always available on every Friday night but they can cancel or say not this week if it suits them! Giving plenty of notice is the key in my view. If I ask for short notice holiday then its my call to arrange cover. If I give a couple of weeks or more its the companies.