Going Well Then.....

System

brewerdave wrote: »

Also, I understand that the IHDs do not display the gas meter readings in m3 as required by Energy Cos. - so no use for manual readings anyway.
(

I am not sure that is entirely accurate as the IHD must be receiving some information from the meter regarding the volume of gas used which it then coverts to a generic kWh figure presumably by using a fixed multiplier. There have been reports of people getting confused and thinking that the kWh figure is what is displayed on the meter and then passing this back to the supplier if the meter isn't being read remotely.

The level of complexity and risk associated with our smart meter programme is bewildering. I can buy a Loop Energy Meter which provides 15 minute monitoring data for both gas and electricity for £59.99. To do this, it does nothing more than watch the numbers going past an optical viewer. It would be a pretty simple exercise to export this information to a supplier without the need for complicated supporting infrastructure. Then again, if it ain't big, complicated and expensive then it ain't British.

https://www.loopenergysaver.com

melbury

Robisere wrote: »

As I have said before, I have no intention of having a smart meter at my home. It is NOT compulsory. With all the media attention given to failures in the system, from Switches causing meters to be inoperative, down to actual fires and damage, why would anyone even consider it? The whole scheme has been badly organised and planned without real thought.

Me neither, I am quite capable of submitting the meter readings to them each quarter.

badmemory

Well I will be avoiding having a meter fitter in the house, a meter reader ok, but a fitter NO. I don't have a good history with them. The last meter change, the electric meter, I asked if he was fitting a smart meter, no he said, well that's a bit pointless I said. I didn't know then what I know now & I should have heaved a sigh of relief. But the gas meter, really filled me with confidence. I got up the next morning & the porch where the meter is (immediately under my sons bedroom) stank of gas. So I rang up to tell them & was told that there would be a charge to fix their mistake. Luckily when I am very angry I don't swear or call people names, because I was very angry.

On another subject House Martin keeps going on about how just about all of us are stealing fuel if we won't have a smart meter, but surely there must be industry figures for this. After all, they know how much they "ship" and they know how much they invoice. So what is the figure? 0.1%, 1%, 10%, 50%. How much are WE paying for the stolen power?

System

badmemory wrote: »

On another subject House Martin keeps going on about how just about all of us are stealing fuel if we won't have a smart meter, but surely there must be industry figures for this. After all, they know how much they "ship" and they know how much they invoice. So what is the figure? 0.1%, 1%, 10%, 50%. How much are WE paying for the stolen power?

These are the figures taken from the Government’s own smart meter cost/benefit analysis:

1.4.2.6 Theft
The implementation of smart metering could improve the ability for suppliers to detect and manage theft. Estimating theft is problematic by nature and levels of theft are difficult to quantify. Detailed analysis carried out by industry in 2010 suggested that levels of theft for gas and electricity come to 1.6 TWh and 5.5 TWh respectively. Using the DECC domestic retail energy prices, in 2012 this translates to a retail value of about £240 million each. In Ofgem’s consultation response to their impact assessment on tackling gas theft30 and in Ofgem’s strategy consultation for the RIIO-ED1 electricity distribution price control31, the value of gas and electricity theft in 2012 is estimated to be between £220m-£400m and £400m per year respectively.

Gas theft estimates are based on independent industry analysis of the measurement error encountered when reconciling gas consumption data, from which the share attributable to theft is derived. Levels of electricity theft are extrapolated from the gas figure by assuming that there is the same level of electricity theft as there is gas theft. This is conservative as evidence suggests that levels of electricity theft may actually be higher than for gas (Ofgem, 2005) and is apparent in the figures above.

In our central scenario we continue to assume that the roll-out of smart meters will reduce theft by 10%, which is also conservative given estimates that smart meters could reduce theft by 20-33% in previous consultation responses. We continue to assume that the amount of theft is likely to decrease as suppliers will have access to more accurate and frequent data and will detect theft more quickly; however we also recognise that new methods of theft will arise. Following standard Government practice, we value theft reductions for domestic customers at the resource rather than the retail value of energy, resulting in benefits of £0.29 per meter per annum for electricity and £0.36 per meter per annum for gas.

This results in present value gross benefit of £219m.

SpotlandRules

I currently have dumb smart meters, however, I still use my IHD to keep track of my daily readings.
I am now not dual fuel, so - assuming that I keep with EON and ZOG for a few years - how are they going to fit SMET 2 meters? Will a SMET 2 meter installed by ZOG work with a SMET 2 installed by EON, if they did revert to being compulsory?

I am all for smart meters, they have got me off prepay meters

System

SpotlandRules wrote: »

I currently have dumb smart meters, however, I still use my IHD to keep track of my daily readings.
I am now not dual fuel, so - assuming that I keep with EON and ZOG for a few years - how are they going to fit SMET 2 meters? Will a SMET 2 meter installed by ZOG work with a SMET 2 installed by EON, if they did revert to being compulsory?

I am all for smart meters, they have got me off prepay meters

SMETS 2 is an industry standard it is not manufacturer or supplier specific. Your smart meters will be connected to a common hub irrespective of which supplier carries out the installation. The gas meter ‘talks’ to the electric meter as the latter has power.

Definition: SMETS stands for Smart Metering Equipment Technical Specification.

House_Martin

As usual the anti smart meter warlord Hengus has been dredging up ancient old figures from as far back as 12 years ago.
Its in the interests of the Government via a useless OFGEM to downplay how useless they are with a set of invented figures which bear no reality on how they have allowed a foreign owned set of suppliers to come into the UK and allow everyone who fancies it the chance for free energy, with no comebacks if and when they get caught.
This is why energy theft is. increasing so fast. No comebacks, no court appearance, no Police involved, why would nt they steal energy.
Hengus, are you calling the head of British Gas Revenue Protection a liar ?
He appeared on national TV , on a program which followed BG RPU employees at their work and stated " every customer is paying £60 a year extra because of energy theft "
He will know better than a set of government figures the extent of energy theft. These figures take some finding too, not easy to access them they are so hidden away.
Only 1500 people, mostly associated with cannabis farming, appeared in UK courts in 2015 for energy theft, with Liverpool , as expected , heading the list with 250 making a court appearance.. Laughably low
I estimate probably 1500 fiddling in my small town of Doncaster., with hundreds fiddling in the Hexthorpe.area alone. I have never heard of anyone face prosecution at Doncaster Magistrates for energy theft. The suppliers make sure to keep it quiet , and simply pass on the cost of the theft to the honest payers.
TV licence fiddlers are there every week Eachpenny, by the way, as they should be, and they all claim to be legally licence free, like YOU

System

House_Martin wrote: »

As usual the anti smart meter warlord Hengus has been dredging up ancient old figures from as far back as 12 years ago.
Its in the interests of the Government via a useless OFGEM to downplay how useless they are with a set of invented figures which bear no reality on how they have allowed a foreign owned set of suppliers to come into the UK and allow everyone who fancies it the chance for free energy, with no comebacks if and when they get caught.
This is why energy theft is. increasing so fast. No comebacks, no court appearance, no Police involved, why would nt they steal energy.
Hengus, are you calling the head of British Gas Revenue Protection a liar ?
He appeared on national TV , on a program which followed BG RPU employees at their work and stated " every customer is paying £60 a year extra because of energy theft "
He will know better than a set of government figures the extent of energy theft. These figures take some finding too, not easy to access them they are so hidden away.
Only 1500 people, mostly associated with cannabis farming, appeared in UK courts in 2015 with Liverpool , as expected , heading the list with 250 making a court appearance.. Laughably low
I estimate probably 1500 fiddling in my small town of Doncaster., with hundreds fiddling in the Hexthorpe.area alone. I have never heard of anyone face prosecution at Doncaster Magistrates for energy theft. The suppliers make sure to keep it quiet , and simply pass on the cost of the theft to the honest payers.
TV licence fiddlers are there every week Eachpenny, by the way, as they should be, and they all claim to be legally licence free, like YOU

You are at it again. The figures quoted in my post are from the Government's latest cost benefit analysis as posted on the Government website DATED 2016.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smart-meter-roll-out-gb-cost-benefit-analysis

If the anecdotal energy theft figures that you keep rolling out are accurate, then cite the actual published source. When trying to defend the cost of a £12Bn project, Governments are not known for their reticence when it comes to putting £s against benefits. It makes the whole project more affordable.

House_Martin

Hengus wrote: »

You are at it again. The figures quoted in my post are from the Government's latest cost benefit analysis as posted on the Government website DATED 2016.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smart-meter-roll-out-gb-cost-benefit-analysis

If the anecdotal energy theft figures that you keep rolling out are accurate, then cite the actual published source. When trying to defend the cost of a £12Bn project, Governments are not known for their reticence when it comes to putting £s against benefits. It makes the whole project more affordable.

I ve cited the published source, many times over the years.. a BBC TV program by the head of British Gas Revenue Protection..but you choose not to believe him..It suits your agenda to downplay energy theft..Why would anyone believe a set of government figures.The government has nt the slightest idea what is going on in the terraced streets of the UK.
Heres a couple of anecdotes to ponder on . I have visited , in Hexthorpe Doncaster, THREE houses on the trot, and all three were bypassing electric or had destroyed the prepayment gas meter to get free gas..They were all Eastern Europeans.
BG RPU visited 20 houses in Dundas Road , Sheffield after a serious gas explosion which took the whole house down, and part of the neighbours by the way, and SEVEN out of the twenty were bypassing for free energy..
I only found two properties fiddling when I went down the same street reading meters for Scottish Power and BG on that occasion.
If you would like to see the results of a gas fiddle, google" Dundas Rd gas explosion closest views " its on Youtube .
The cause of the explosion was a gas meter bypass.

brewerdave

@ housemartin - published does not mean some bloke pulling a figure out of thin air ,on a TV programme which no-one else seems to have seen:rotfl: