Going Well Then.....

Kayalana99

EDF won't let us have one it seems, it advertises it like crazy but when I try to book 'they aren't in our area' then when I finally managed to get a booking they cancelled it and now they 'aren't in our area' again...we are in a semi major city too so it's not like we're out in middle of nowhere.

societys_child

why they are plugging them when they can't fit version 2 which doesn't revert to dumb

Yeah, I'd prefer to wait for v2. Why are they trying to push soon-to-be outdated meters?

House Martin makes me laugh . . . seems to think anyone who doesn't want a smart, must be on the fiddle. . .

victor2

brewerdave wrote: »

I was watching TV this morning.....and they are still pushing the "smart meter" message EVEN THO' at the same time there are myriad Govt. messages about switching suppliers - the end result is that the "typical" consumer who already has BG "Smart" meters will switch, not realise that his meters are now "dumb" so will revert back to estimated billing:eek:

The usual conflict of government messages.

House_Martin

societys_child wrote: »

Yeah, I'd prefer to wait for v2. Why are they trying to push soon-to-be outdated meters?

House Martin makes me laugh . . . seems to think anyone who doesn't want a smart, must be on the fiddle. . .

"Version 2 "meters have been around for a couple of years now. BG use Landis Gyr smart meters which can be updated to SMETS2 "over the air ". No one on here knows if they are currently fitting these meters, they may well be fitting them right now.
BG have already installed 4 million smart meters and many of these could well be the later SMETS2 compatible meters.
Of course I don t think anyone who refuses a smart meter is an energy thief but I have seen a headline about 200,000 people growing cannabis in the UK in their homes and every one of them fiddle the meters and every one will refuse a smart meter as a matter of course.
Add to that the huge numbers bypassing prepayment meters who will also automatically refuse a smart meter and its clear that smart meters are badly needed for all of us because we are supporting the thieves and paying for their stolen energy in higher costs
.So the meters must be obligatory, that is vital. And surely the idiotic politicians behind the decision to let an ignorant Joe Public tell the DNO s and suppliers that they do not want their meters is ludicrous.

EachPenny

House_Martin wrote: »

Its pretty clear by these figures that the whole roll out will fail because some politician who has no idea how the energy market works gave the public the right to refuse one...just plain idiotic ! All the energy thieves for a start automatically refuse one of course, and that is hundreds of thousands throughout the UK.

What does knowing "how the energy market works" have to do with implementing an inherited policy to fit smart meters? If anything, someone who knows how the domestic energy market works would realise that people save most money by switching around, and having smart meters which make switching harder is therefore not a good thing. So I would say that ensuring that people have the option whether or not to have a smart meter is an indication that the current politicians know quite a bit more about "the energy market works" than you do.

House_Martin wrote: »

Too many people are just idiots when it comes to energy billing and they have to be saved from their ignorance by having automated exact billing, just like most of the European countries have done apart from the Germans and of course the Swedes.

I wouldn't call people idiots, but it is true that people are not informed as well as they should be about how energy supply works, how to save money, and that switching is the best way to achieve savings.

House_Martin wrote: »

A great many people just end up in deep debt because they can t give a monkeys about reading meters, or will not allow access to check them, and just rely on some low direct debit they have engineered. These people end up having a prepayment meter fitted , mostly against their will which then requires a warrant and a locksmith to break in and install one.

One has to say that if you ignore all the correspondence from your energy supplier and get to the point that a locksmith is being employed to break in to your home, then it is a little difficult to have too much sympathy for them - unless of course they are the victim of some error not of their making.

House_Martin wrote: »

Smart meters work fine and 4 million BG customers are happy about it.

This is where our views diverge a bit HM. Do you have evidence of all this happiness (I don't mean of the kind you obtain personally over a cup of tea in a nice old ladies/gents home). I mean data from surveys asking people how satisfied they are with their smart meter, whether they have 'saved' as much money as they were told to expect, if they have had problems switching supplier, is the meter working properly... you know, all the kind of things which would determine if someone is 'happy'.

If you are BG customer, please stop reading now as I'm about to say something you might find offensive. BG are not one of the cheapest suppliers, and HM himself has commented on loyalty to the brand, in part because people identify BG as still being the Gas Board. So (and this is the bit you might find offensive is you are still reading) I think it is reasonable to say that a large proportion of BG customers have never switched and have no idea of the savings they could achieve by doing so. I also don't think it unreasonable to suggest that the people who have never switched away from BG do not really understand what is going on in the residential energy market. Indeed, to borrow a phrase from someone who knows a bit about BG, one wonders if they are also "just idiots when it comes to energy billing and they have to be saved from their ignorance."

If this theory is correct, then I would speculate that whatever kind of meter BG installed - even one which massively over-recorded energy consumption - a lot of BG customers would indeed be 'happy'. Simply because they don't have the knowledge which would empower them to make wiser decisions about their energy use.

House_Martin wrote: »

We always have the usual pig headed crowd who want to remain in the last century and who automatically condemn then.They have to be forced into one or face disconnection ! That will make them change their minds pretty quick.

We are fortunate then that you are not the government minister with responsibility for domestic energy metering.

EachPenny

House_Martin wrote: »

So the meters must be obligatory, that is vital. And surely the idiotic politicians behind the decision to let an ignorant Joe Public tell the DNO s and suppliers that they do not want their meters is ludicrous.

You really don't get it do you? The 'ignorant' (as you put it) Joe Public are the ones who are having obsolete smart meters fitted in their homes because they have been taken in by the misleading advertising or conned into having one by energy companies with 'sales' targets to meet.

People who weigh up the pros and cons, who are aware of the SMETS1/2 issue, who realise the meter won't actually save them any money - and then say 'no thanks', they are the ones who are informed and educated.

System

It would seem that no SMETS2 meters have been installed and Ofgem has described plans as being unambitious and it is threatening enforcement action. Desperate measures, me thinks.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2017/06/2017.06_final_open_letter_-_smart_meter_rollout_progress_and_plans_.pdf

sd99

House_Martin wrote: »

We always have the usual pig headed crowd who want to remain in the last century and who automatically condemn then.They have to be forced into one or face disconnection ! That will make them change their minds pretty quick.

I'd say I'm a reasonably smart person. I write computer software for a living and am aware that it's never a good idea to be an early adopter of tech - there are often bugs, compatibility issues and it's usually quite expensive. I also know boiling the kettle will use electricity at a fast rate and that if I switch things off when I'm not using them, it will cost less - just as most people do. I also submit readings whenever requested and get accurate bills.

I refused to have a smart meter installed - not because I don't like tech, or because I want to remain in the last century, but because I cannot see the benefit for me.

1. How will having a smart meter save me money? I'm not going to stop boiling the kettle when I fancy a cuppa.
2. My house (and therefore meter) is four years old - how is it cost effective for this to be replaced already?
3. The scheme is poorly designed, and the fact that early devices can go dumb is unbelievably poorly planned, so why waste money (that we're all paying for) to change my meter at this time?
4. I can envisage energy companies using these meters to introduce peak tariffs, and as someone who uses the majority of their energy at peak times, this doesn't appeal.
5. Mobile signal is pretty dire in my area, so chances are I'd still have to submit my readings manually, so again, what's the point?
6. You say the government should force people to switch or face disconnection. Surely there are more important things the government could be doing to investigate reducing bills than force people to spend money for this?

ps. I'm not pigheaded, I just have my own opinions.

House_Martin

sd99 wrote: »

I'd say I'm a reasonably smart person. I write computer software for a living and am aware that it's never a good idea to be an early adopter of tech - there are often bugs, compatibility issues and it's usually quite expensive. I also know boiling the kettle will use electricity at a fast rate and that if I switch things off when I'm not using them, it will cost less - just as most people do. I also submit readings whenever requested and get accurate bills.

I refused to have a smart meter installed - not because I don't like tech, or because I want to remain in the last century, but because I cannot see the benefit for me.

1. How will having a smart meter save me money? I'm not going to stop boiling the kettle when I fancy a cuppa.
2. My house (and therefore meter) is four years old - how is it cost effective for this to be replaced already?
3. The scheme is poorly designed, and the fact that early devices can go dumb is unbelievably poorly planned, so why waste money (that we're all paying for) to change my meter at this time?
4. I can envisage energy companies using these meters to introduce peak tariffs, and as someone who uses the majority of their energy at peak times, this doesn't appeal.
5. Mobile signal is pretty dire in my area, so chances are I'd still have to submit my readings manually, so again, what's the point?
6. You say the government should force people to switch or face disconnection. Surely there are more important things the government could be doing to investigate reducing bills than force people to spend money for this?

ps. I'm not pigheaded, I just have my own opinions.

No one is interested if you can t see a benefit or if you think a smart meter won t save you money(it won t ).
The point is the suppliers, and the DNO want them in, and they are more important than little you.
You do not own the meter and you can not have a say in what type or model or whatever the suppliers decide to replace your old one with.You never had a choice in the last meter.You did nt give a damn what was installed. If you are then go off grid and generate your own energy and then you are in full control, in the meantime you have to have what they fancy screwing on the backboard.

If you remain "pig headed " , they will install the latest smart meter and promise not to switch the connection with the server on and its up to you if you want to get the barricades out and tell them "thou shalt not pass "
They have plenty of anti government "pig heads " over in Florida and California where the States did it the American way and simply levied high extra costs to the refuseniks in the form of a one off yearly cost of around $100 dollars then a yearly metering charge of around the same amount.Over here I have heard of a £60 a year metering charge for all those intent on being an idiot.
The whole of the EU , bar a couple of countries, made them mandatory from day one, as did the UK under ED Miliband the then Energy Secretary in 2008. Some Tory minister made a big mistake in letting Joe Public stick his/her unwanted oar in and give them a choice.That has to be taken away, and damn quick.
My definition of an "ignorant Joe Public " is that if they do not know what a "Kwh " stands for , then they are ignorant and IMO 9 out of 10 do not know the meaning of KWH or what the letters stand for.
And 9 out of 10 users do not make 4 readings a year and they rely on a guess for their monthly/quarterly billing.

System

sd99 wrote: »

Mobile signal is pretty dire in my area, so chances are I'd still have to submit my readings manually, so again, what's the point?

SMETS2 meters do not need a direct mobile signal. When SMETS2 meters are rolled out in a given geographical area, they will connect via a Wide Area Network. If the meter fitted to your property cannot connect directly with The Data Communications Company (DCC) then your ongoing data will pass along the chain from one meter to another until a meter is found that has a mobile link to the DCC.