Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

cogito wrote: »

Of course, if the EU would be so kind as to present a detailed summary of what they think we should pay instead of a number written on a fag packet then we should seriously consider it. As it happens, they haven't

The EU has already made clear their position on the financial settlement principles.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/essential-principles-financial_settlement_en_0.pdf

In fact the EU has been rather more transparent and better organised than the UK to date with detailed position papers on the following topics published months ago....

- Citizens' rights
- The financial settlement
- Nuclear materials and safeguard equipment (EURATOM)
- Issues relating to the functioning of the Union institutions, agencies and bodies
- Governance of the Article 50 agreement
- Goods placed on the market under Union law before the withdrawal date
- Judicial cooperation in civil and commercial matters
- Ongoing judicial and administrative procedures
- Ongoing police and judicial cooperation in criminal matters

cogito

Yes, I'm familiar with this wish list, some of which can be agreed in principle and some like the Reste a Liquider is highly contentious but no numbers have been attached and it is up the the EU to provide them.

cogito

Meanwhile, I'm hearing that the meeting between the two most hated men in European politics, Blair and Juncker will finish on Thursday with a press conference which has been booked in a larger room than the press conference to be held by Davis and Barmier. Someone trying to make a none too subtle point. I'm also hearing that Blair will be offered an EU commisssion post with a brief to reform and modernise the union.

Keep it up, Tone. Every time you stick your head above the parapet, more remainers move to the leave camp.

Rusty_Shackleton

cogito wrote: »

The EU's position regarding the so called Brexit bill can be summed up as follows:

Barmier - we want your money
Davis - how much?
Barmier - You tell us.

Your post makes absolutely no sense at all. Of course, if the EU would be so kind as to present a detailed summary of what they think we should pay instead of a number written on a fag packet then we should seriously consider it. As it happens, they haven't and until they do, there is no point in engaging them in this charade.

The bill should be considered in isolation and not linked to any other aspect of the negotiations.

Why dont we put something forward first to get things moving, lets just put forward eminently sensible things like buying into participation of Horizon 2020, agree we'll pay pension liabilities of British EU staff and MEPs.

I agree the bill should be separate to anything else, but effectively remaining in the EU an extra 18 months to coincide with the start of the next EU budget would simplify calculating and negotiating the bill.

cogito

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Why dont we put something forward first to get things moving, lets just put forward eminently sensible things like buying into participation of Horizon 2020, agree we'll pay pension liabilities of British EU staff and MEPs.

I agree the bill should be separate to anything else, but effectively remaining in the EU an extra 18 months to coincide with the start of the next EU budget would simplify calculating and negotiating the bill.

The EU are the supplicants here. They are desperate for the money.

You talk above about basic negotiating skills without understanding that the EU are not negotiating. The have a set of position papers which have bound Barmier's team hand and foot because they have no authority to depart from them.

The UK has put forward imaginative solutions to problems like the Irish border which the EU have dismissed as fantasy despite the EU stating that they wanted imaginative solutions.

The EU will lose the propaganda war as soon as it becomes clear that they are the ones blocking progress.

System

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That's a daft response.

Yes it was - it was the same response you made to avoid discussing the point made.

i.e. it doesn't matter whether the EU workers leaving are lettuce washers, fruit pickers or whatever. The jobs they were doing won't be handed to Brits because (a) they don't want to do them (b) they're too expensive and (c) unemployment is so low that if you're unemployed you're just not interested in working.

Continue making daft points about being too lazy to wash salad by all means.

System

cogito wrote: »

The EU are the supplicants here. They are desperate for the money.

You talk above about basic negotiating skills without understanding that the EU are not negotiating. The have a set of position papers which have bound Barmier's team hand and foot because they have no authority to depart from them.

The UK has put forward imaginative solutions to problems like the Irish border which the EU have dismissed as fantasy despite the EU stating that they wanted imaginative solutions.

The EU will lose the propaganda war as soon as it becomes clear that they are the ones blocking progress.

The agenda and timescales all parties agreed to are what is blocking progress. How many days have been spent negotiating since negotiations began on 19th June? Not many.

System

cogito wrote: »

The EU are the supplicants here. They are desperate for the money.

Not really. The UK is going to stump up quite a few years worth of membership fees when they pay the divorce bill. The EU can decide how they manage without the UK's contributions at leisure.

cogito

ilovehouses wrote: »

Not really. The UK is going to stump up quite a few years worth of membership fees when they pay the divorce bill. The EU can decide how they manage without the UK's contributions at leisure.

I very much doubt it. The Poles and other eastern European states have been promised lots of money by the EU which they won't now get. The Germans and other net contributors have said that they won't increase their payments. There's a nasty row brewing.

always_sunny

cogito wrote: »

I very much doubt it. The Poles and other eastern European states have been promised lots of money by the EU which they won't now get. The Germans and other net contributors have said that they won't increase their payments. There's a nasty row brewing.

You keep getting caught in this 'money' matter with the EU when it is not a problem, Germany has been posting surplus YoY for few years, the EZ is growing faster than the UK economy and let's not forget that there is a lot of cash in the EU.

The UK is not in a great state financially so it's not in a position to offer much advice.
Things will keep moving forward and in 5 years time folks won't even remember whether the UK was part of the EU or not.

I know you believe this is a leverage, cause you keep posting about it, but I don't think you have (or want to) notice that in the EU there is no much panic about Brexit and It's Business As Usual to ensure by 2019 A50 is executed and the UK is out.