Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

Rusty_Shackleton

Matt_L wrote: »

Sorry but i personally have friends that deliberately choose to keep their employees wages lower than they would be because they have an inexhaustible supply of cheap foreign labour, their words...

Are you able/willing to share what sort of businesses/sectors and size? For example a friend of yours could be a farmer that employs a couple of people, or hundreds. How representative are your contacts of businesses in general?

I've no doubt there are some very unscrupulous employers out there, but there are also many I believe when they say the Brits just won't do the job, and we certainly do have some serious skills shortages that are plugged with foreign labour (and not necessarily cheaply either!)

Rusty_Shackleton

Tromking wrote: »

.....and witness employer representative groups bleating about the imminent labour shortage. In other words..."OMG! we might have to people more!".
The people voted for a change, its happening.

Lets assume you're correct, those same people could get well and truly shafted by the removal of employment law protections, and if the economy does tank and unemployment rises, do you really think pay increases will be forthcoming? I mean, we're at full employment and wages are decreasing in real terms... something isn't right, and for it to be fixed by brexit it would have to eb something caused by the EU... before you blame the EU, perhaps look at Mays record as Home Sec with non-EU immigration.

Matt_L

NineDeuce wrote: »

It's funny how all leavers have got a friend or in your case, friends like this isnt it ? Not their words I am afraid, just yours....

Of course, anything that doesn't fit your narrative must be a lie, typical remoaner response..

NineDeuce

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Lets assume you're correct, those same people could get well and truly shafted by the removal of employment law protections, and if the economy does tank and unemployment rises, do you really think pay increases will be forthcoming? I mean, we're at full employment and wages are decreasing in real terms... something isn't right, and for it to be fixed by brexit it would have to eb something caused by the EU... before you blame the EU, perhaps look at Mays record as Home Sec with non-EU immigration.

Wages have decreased in real terms in line with the minimum wage. One popular belief with Leavers of course is that despite 'immigration driving down wages' employers wouldnt be able to afford a higher minimum wage anyway. It just shows how ridiculous their claims were.

NineDeuce

Matt_L wrote: »

Of course, anything that doesn't fit your narrative must be a lie, typical remoaner response..

i.e. you only have words with no substance.

It's just like me saying that I know of a big massive foriegn employer who employed a high share of foreign nationals who actively chose to pay more than they had to....

Except that this was true and there is real proof of this. Check any article around Lidl...

"Those flipping Germans coming over here and increasing wages...."

Private_Church

NineDeuce wrote: »

Always good to dream isnt it, especially when if you bothered to look at statistics they will tell you that immigration has not driven down wages. I know you will continue to tell yourself otherwise....

Ok so we are all told that the reason houses are at an all time premium is because there aren't enough being built, build more houses and the prices will fall. You say mass immigration hasn't reduced wages for many I say bullsh*t. The value of any product or service is related to its availability which is why I mentioned houses.Wages are the same, if you flood the market with labour the value of that labour falls. It was seen in the Construction industry post 2004 when Eastern Europeans came en masse. If labour was restricted wages would have risen for those at the bottom and they wouldn't need to rely so much on the NMW rises imposed by Govt.

The Bank of England reported a few months ago that wages for some were indeed affected by immigration. If back in 2004 onwards we had seen a mass influx of Barristers,Lawyers,middle managers etc the govt of the day would have acted but it was the working class and the poor who were affected and the middle class just ignored them.

The referendum has made the political elite stand up and take notice and in future not to take the public for granted.

NineDeuce

Private_Church wrote: »

Ok so we are all told that the reason houses are at an all time premium is because there aren't enough being built, build more houses and the prices will fall. You say mass immigration hasn't reduced wages for many I say bullsh*t. The value of any product or service is related to its availability which is why I mentioned houses.Wages are the same, if you flood the market with labour the value of that labour falls. It was seen in the Construction industry post 2004 when Eastern Europeans came en masse. If labour was restricted wages would have risen for those at the bottom and they wouldn't need to rely so much on the NMW rises imposed by Govt.

The Bank of England reported a few months ago that wages for some were indeed affected by immigration. If back in 2004 onwards we had seen a mass influx of Barristers,Lawyers,middle managers etc the govt of the day would have acted but it was the working class and the poor who were affected and the middle class just ignored them.

The referendum has made the political elite stand up and take notice and in future not to take the public for granted.

This isnt strictly true. There are a number of reasons that can create any given economic situation. Take house prices. House prices were rocketing way before 'mass immigration'. The main reason for this is that given that people are unable to afford high deposits. In the 80s, you would have been able to get on the ladder with a couple of grand spare, now you need 5-figure sums at least.

As such, buy-to-letters can charge what they like in rent. Still, dont blame this corrupt system which only a minority of people can benefit from... just blame immigration, right? Nigel Farage said so....

Thrugelmir

NineDeuce wrote: »

Always good to dream isnt it, especially when if you bothered to look at statistics they will tell you that immigration has not driven down wages. I know you will continue to tell yourself otherwise....

The £ currently buys far fewer €. People that travel for economic reasons alone may well not stay for the long term. Also becoming far more expensive to live in the UK. As inflation begins to bite.

Thrugelmir

NineDeuce wrote: »

Wages have decreased in real terms in line with the minimum wage.

Minimum wage has more recently been increased in real terms.

NineDeuce

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Minimum wage has more recently been increased in real terms.

A one-off increase, rebranded as the Living Wage. That's all. It is still way behind the IFS recommended Living Wage of £9 per hour