Brexit, the economy and house prices (Part 3)

Eric_the_half_a_bee

For those who favour a clean Brexit (i.e. what we voted for), it's going fine.

For those who favour a soft Brexit (i.e. leaving in name only), not so much.

Thrugelmir

Jason74 wrote: »

I am very much a remainer, so the question doesn't come into it for me.

Admirable to maintain your principles. The debate has moved on though. The world continues to change further. Being negative makes no contribution at all.

mrginge

It's going pretty much as expected.

I won't judge whether it's going well or badly until there is some tangible output.
And I am definitely not going to get into a flap about pointless media stories from people with a bias to either camp in the meantime.

Jason74

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Admirable to maintain your principles. The debate has moved on though. The world continues to change further. Being negative makes no contribution at all.

A fair point, and one I would agree with. I made the point about being a remainer purely on the basis that the difficulties in how Brexit has been handled doesn't change my view on whether it was a good idea, as I considered it a terrible idea in the first place.

In terms of what happens now, I agree, it's about how we move forward. My own view is very much a minority one at present, but I see a second referendum on the final deal as essential. We voted for Brexit not really knowing what it would look like, so I think that looking again once we do know makes perfect sense. This is of course especially true given that there are many legitimate questions being asked bout how the process has been handled, and how that will impact the end result.

Of course, if people see the final deal and a majority feel it is the best way forward, then absolutely that is what we should do. But I think that putting the final process to public scrutiny (with the option of chaniging our collective mind very much on the table) is both the right and the democratic thing to do.

kabayiri

Our relationship with the EU has changed irreversibly IMO.

You can argue whether we should go back into this club or not, but it is unlikely we would go back on the same terms.

Qualified majority voting would ensure that we get marginalized on all the key future decisions.

The German-Franco core probably spot an opportunity to take decisive control of the EU development right now, and why wouldn't they. If it were Germany and not UK who were leaving, we would be using the impending departure as a call for change (which favoured us).

stator

Ignore the media, they have no real information so they are putting any old wonk with any old rumour on TV/in print. None of it means anything.
Only an idiot would conduct negotiation in public, and the Tories aren't that stupid thankfully.
We'll see eventually how it's going but for now you have no idea.

mrginge

Jason74 wrote: »

We voted for Brexit not really knowing what it would look like, so I think that looking again once we do know makes perfect sense. This is of course especially true given that there are many legitimate questions being asked bout how the process has been handled, and how that will impact the end result.

Of course, if people see the final deal and a majority feel it is the best way forward, then absolutely that is what we should do. But I think that putting the final process to public scrutiny (with the option of chaniging our collective mind very much on the table) is both the right and the democratic thing to do.

This of course assumes that after two years of negotiations, during which both the EU and UK will have prepared countless strategies for separate futures, that a 'no deal' option actually exists.

BobQ

Eric_the_half_a_bee wrote: »

For those who favour a clean Brexit (i.e. what we voted for), it's going fine.

For those who favour a soft Brexit (i.e. leaving in name only), not so much.

Nobody voted fro either, they voted for their interpretation of what leaving the EU meant.

That's what "Brexit means Brexit" means- Brexit is whatever the Government Party thinks it means. And that is what we will get. If that is what you want you will be happy, if its not you will feel betrayed.

I appreciate that many who voted for this mess will be content however poor the nation becomes, however many jobs are lost and whatever the impact on their children. What I never appreciated was quite how little vision those who wanted Brexit had and how little preparation our Government had put into preparing for that outcome.

Eric_the_half_a_bee

BobQ wrote: »

Nobody voted fro either, they voted for their interpretation of what leaving the EU meant.

It was made very clear by both the official Leave and Remain campaigns that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market, leaving the jurisdiction of the ECJ, and making our own laws on all national matters including immigration policy.

Now those very same propositions are described by the disingenuous as "Reckless Brexit".

BobQ

mrginge wrote: »

This of course assumes that after two years of negotiations, during which both the EU and UK will have prepared countless strategies for separate futures, that a 'no deal' option actually exists.

What makes you think a "no deal" will not exist? If the best deal we can reach by negotiation is unacceptable to either party, surely we will leave with no deal?