Yodel Parcel Left in the Bin

CardinalWolsey

The added problem here is that the seller in all likelihood does not have a contract with Yodel. They will have shipped locally, with Yodel completing the last mile delivery in the UK. The contract chain could be along the lines of Buyer -> Seller -> Agent -> China Domestic Shipper -> International Shipper -> Yodel. For you to query Yodel has to go through that complete chain for a response to a query.

Out of interest, have you received anything in relation to duty/VAT?

glentoran99

takman wrote: »

No they won't, they have already refused the OP's claim for a refund so they won't suddenly decide yo take the money from the seller just because they do a chargeback.

The chargeback will leave a negative balance in PayPal and they certainly won't be able to use PayPal again if they owe them money.

I think your misunderstanding how paypal work, the negative balance would be in the sellers account, as paypal would recover the money from them in the event of a charge back, ~A chargeback has to be defended by a seller


https://www.paypal.com/gb/selfhelp/article/What-is-a-chargeback-FAQ477

The outcome is decided by the credit card company and not by PayPal

glentoran99

theonlywayisup wrote: »

The difficulties you have are that the seller is not in the Uk therefore legislation here won't help. The contract was between the seller and Yodel so no hope there.

Most bank/credit/debit card companies won't allow a chargeback if you have used Paypal to pay. However, that is not to say you shouldn't at least try.

I am assuming you opened the case with Paypal under INR (item not received)? Tracking from the seller would win the case for the seller.

You could open a SNAD (significantly not as described) and cite the box as being empty. If you do win the case (they usually go in favour of the buyer) you will have to return your purchase to the seller via a tracked (visible online) method. This will be at your cost, although there are some offers with Paypal to get a £15 refund on returns postage.

Have a read of Paypal's buyer protection specifically section 13.

Posting an empty box or something light won't be expensive, but tracking to China is notoriously bad.

Look around this forum, plenty of people on the receiving end of paypal chargebacks, ?You don't have section 75 protection but you can certainly issue a chargeback

theonlywayisup

glentoran99 wrote: »

Look around this forum, plenty of people on the receiving end of paypal chargebacks, ?You don't have section 75 protection but you can certainly issue a chargeback

It certainly isn't a certainty. Having been there myself. They do happen but not all banks will entertain it. Chargebacks are not law but rules and those can be different with different banks.

These links may be helpful to the OP although one is old it is still valid. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/guides/article-2523075/What-Christmas-purchases-wrong-How-chargeback-help-money-back.html

What type of transactions aren’t covered?
Some types of purchases are not covered by chargeback, and eBay users should take note as this includes PayPal transactions.
In using PayPal, the actual act of loading the money into your account is considered to be the transaction.
This means the transaction is with PayPal, not with the seller you've bought a product from, so the first port of call to dispute a purchase in this case is to go through PayPal's complaints process.
You could potentially still make a chargeback claim against a PayPal purchase, if you can show you used your debit or credit card to specifically make the purchase through PayPal.
So if your PayPal account was empty and you paid in credit to make a transaction on that same day, then you may have a case for chargeback. But again, your card provider is under no obligation to provide a refund.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-use-chargeback

PayPal and chargeback

Watch out if you use your credit or debit card to load money into your PayPal account or other similar online accounts, as it is the loading of the money that is considered to be the card transaction.

If the money that you load into your account is then subsequently used to buy goods and services, that transaction is not classed as a card transaction and is unlikely to be covered by chargeback.

If you're making a card purchase through PayPal it's best to empty your PayPal account regularly so there is no credit balance.

That way, when you make a card purchase through PayPal, the same amount will be debited from your bank account or credit card as goes immediately to the seller.

This will make it easier for your bank or credit card provider to match the purchase with the debit.

Unfortunately my bank at the time would not entertain it even though there were no funds in the Paypal account. However as I said above, the OP should give it a go.

ssparks2003

theonlywayisup wrote: »

You could open a SNAD (significantly not as described) and cite the box as being empty. If you do win the case (they usually go in favour of the buyer) you will have to return your purchase to the seller via a tracked (visible online) method. This will be at your cost, although there are some offers with Paypal to get a £15 refund on returns postage.

I don't think making a fraudulent claim will be helpful, and don't you think they might notice the OP has already claimed once against the delivery.

carminekitsune

I used to work customer service for an online retailer, so I can confirm that Yodel are just following their policy. Their contract is with the sender, so it's them that needs to make the complaint.

I wonder if it's worth forwarding your exchange with Yodel onto DressLilly? If you make it clear they won't be out of pocket, they may be more co-operative.

takman

glentoran99 wrote: »

I think your misunderstanding how paypal work, the negative balance would be in the sellers account, as paypal would recover the money from them in the event of a charge back, ~A chargeback has to be defended by a seller


https://www.paypal.com/gb/selfhelp/article/What-is-a-chargeback-FAQ477

If PayPal payments were straightforward payments directly to the sellers account then Section 75 would apply. So as it does not apply this shows there isn't a direct payment to the sellers account, so them taking the money from the seller definitely isn't guaranteed.

glentoran99

takman wrote: »

If PayPal payments were straightforward payments directly to the sellers account then Section 75 would apply. So as it does not apply this shows there isn't a direct payment to the sellers account, so them taking the money from the seller definitely isn't guaranteed.

Its guaranteed if the bank agrees to the chargeback

takman

glentoran99 wrote: »

Its guaranteed if the bank agrees to the chargeback

How can you say it's guaranteed?. What if the OP topped up their PayPal balance with there card and then used the money to pay for the item. The chargeback will reverse the transaction and remove the top up which would pit the account into a negative balance. There was a post on here from someone who did this for every purchase because that's how they thought PayPal worked.

I'm not saying the OP did this but I'm just going an example of how PayPal isn't a direct payment to the seller. So it definetly isn't guaranteed that any chargeback will always take the money from the seller.

glentoran99

takman wrote: »

How can you say it's guaranteed?. What if the OP topped up their PayPal balance with there card and then used the money to pay for the item. The chargeback will reverse the transaction and remove the top up which would pit the account into a negative balance. There was a post on here from someone who did this for every purchase because that's how they thought PayPal worked.

I'm not saying the OP did this but I'm just going an example of how PayPal isn't a direct payment to the seller. So it definetly isn't guaranteed that any chargeback will always take the money from the seller.

Ah hadn't thought of that, My comments relate to using paypal "normally"